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Post by Logan on Jul 16, 2020 20:06:07 GMT
I don't think we need 4th year option for anything. They are just regular contracts now. If you extend, you are on the hook for those years. If you offer a rookie a 4 year deal, you are on the hook for those years. if they can be demoted they arent regular contracts |
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Post by Logan on Jul 17, 2020 19:52:53 GMT
an idea i had during the pod:
rather than restricting demotions based on contract value we could instead have a "salary cap" of sorts for them. something in the 25-30 million range.
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Post by 👨🏼⚕️delapandemic🚑 on Aug 20, 2020 12:07:24 GMT
We can currently extend any 2nd rounder... so ALL rookies can be given 3 years so the GM has Bird rights. I like majic's proposal of MAX rookies (or those over 'x' amount being ineligible for the minors)... but for those MIN rookies (which are likely going to be the equivalent of 2nd rounders) there needs to be some incentive to develop them... and a 1 year MIN isn't incentive for anyone. Being able to extend them is the only incentive to keep them, develop them, and see if they pan out. Maybe we do this: Rookies signed to MIN deals only (no MLE, no LLE) can be extended (for cost or free, not sure which feels right) to 3 seasons (use the same structure as current 2nd rounders). No limit on how many can be extended and they don't count toward your yearly cap of 1 (one) $5m or less extension for established players (or MLE/LLE rookies). That should promote the development of lesser rookies, keep the minor league system alive, encourage capped out teams to invest in rookies, etc.
can you give some feedback on this? (specifically extending MIN rookies and if that can be considered different than extending your normal 1 player a year)
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Post by eric on Aug 20, 2020 22:59:20 GMT
We can currently extend any 2nd rounder... so ALL rookies can be given 3 years so the GM has Bird rights. I like majic's proposal of MAX rookies (or those over 'x' amount being ineligible for the minors)... but for those MIN rookies (which are likely going to be the equivalent of 2nd rounders) there needs to be some incentive to develop them... and a 1 year MIN isn't incentive for anyone. Being able to extend them is the only incentive to keep them, develop them, and see if they pan out. Maybe we do this: Rookies signed to MIN deals only (no MLE, no LLE) can be extended (for cost or free, not sure which feels right) to 3 seasons (use the same structure as current 2nd rounders). No limit on how many can be extended and they don't count toward your yearly cap of 1 (one) $5m or less extension for established players (or MLE/LLE rookies). That should promote the development of lesser rookies, keep the minor league system alive, encourage capped out teams to invest in rookies, etc. can you give some feedback on this? (specifically extending MIN rookies and if that can be considered different than extending your normal 1 player a year)
i think capped out teams having a tougher time investing in rookies is the point of the system so i don't want to weaken that from the start if you really wanted to you could have an undercap team bid on a rookie with an ank deal with the promise that you'd trade them a min and incentives, that seems like a thing people used to (still?) do with MLEs for example |
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Post by skrouse on Sept 4, 2020 3:23:54 GMT
Posting my questions in here so we have documented answers for reference.
1. Soft Cap rules apply for Rookie FA bids? Yes per eric
2. Based on answer 1, teams over SC can offer min, lle or MLE, can these be extended?
3. Are all other 1 year Rookie FA deals under 5 Mil eligible for 2 year extension (limit 1)?
4. Are there any new limits (inc. cap) associated for rookie demotions?
5. Are extended Rookies eligible for demotions beyond contract year 1?
6. Are we still limited to 15 bids per FA Day?
7. Can we extend a 2 yr rookie deal to a 3rd (like current 2nd round contracts)?
8. Can we decline the final 2 years of any rookie deal (like current 1st round contracts)?
Think that's it for now.
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Post by Logan on Sept 4, 2020 3:33:53 GMT
2. of course. you can extend them now, rookies will be no different
3. yes as they are deals under 5m
4. dont think so
5. players from signed in fa during the last three classes are now eligible for demotion, so yes
6. yes
7. no, just offer 3 years
8. i dont know the answer to that one
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Post by jhb on Sept 4, 2020 14:37:31 GMT
tie demotions to $, there easy fix Now having reviewed that there should be an annual salary cap on a rookie contract that can be demoted so people can't yolo rookies onto big deals and just hide them off their books if they suck as a de facto amnesty I propose anything more than exactly 4.5 mil is not able to be demoted. |
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Post by skrouse on Sept 4, 2020 14:52:12 GMT
tie demotions to $, there easy fix Now having reviewed that there should be an annual salary cap on a rookie contract that can be demoted so people can't yolo rookies onto big deals and just hide them off their books if they suck as a de facto amnesty I propose anything more than exactly 4.5 mil is not able to be demoted. Shouldn't be able to demote MLEs IMO - should be 4.49 mil and below IMO.
Teams could go over HC with an MLE rookie signing and then demote Sim 2. Don't like that idea.
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Post by Logan on Sept 4, 2020 14:59:53 GMT
Now having reviewed that there should be an annual salary cap on a rookie contract that can be demoted so people can't yolo rookies onto big deals and just hide them off their books if they suck as a de facto amnesty I propose anything more than exactly 4.5 mil is not able to be demoted. Shouldn't be able to demote MLEs IMO - should be 4.49 mil and below IMO.
Teams could go over HC with an MLE rookie signing and then demote Sim 2. Don't like that idea.
why |
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Post by skrouse on Sept 4, 2020 15:03:23 GMT
Shouldn't be able to demote MLEs IMO - should be 4.49 mil and below IMO.
Teams could go over HC with an MLE rookie signing and then demote Sim 2. Don't like that idea.
why Feels like a work around for evading the HC and making a signing they couldn't if it weren't for the minor league system. Which as mentioned in shout, won't be around in 6.0 if we have a full league.
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Post by Logan on Sept 4, 2020 15:06:27 GMT
Feels like a work around for evading the HC and making a signing they couldn't if it weren't for the minor league system. Which as mentioned in shout, won't be around in 6.0 if we have a full league. 1. people over the hc have always been able to draft players and demote them, at least since weve had a minor league, and an mle is their only way of acquiring them in this system 2. we will 100% not have a full league for 6.0 |
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Post by killybing on Sept 4, 2020 15:10:25 GMT
Feels like a work around for evading the HC and making a signing they couldn't if it weren't for the minor league system. Which as mentioned in shout, won't be around in 6.0 if we have a full league. 1. people over the hc have always been able to draft players and demote them, at least since weve had a minor league, and an mle is their only way of acquiring them in this system 2. we will 100% not have a full league for 6.0
They could acquire rookie through mins and LLEs.
I don't care where we draw the line -- whether we want over-the-cap teams to be able to send MLEs to rookies or not. LLEs and mins could be sufficient. Its all about how much want we want to tip the scales toward cap room.
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Post by Logan on Sept 4, 2020 15:12:40 GMT
1. people over the hc have always been able to draft players and demote them, at least since weve had a minor league, and an mle is their only way of acquiring them in this system 2. we will 100% not have a full league for 6.0 They could acquire rookie through mins and LLEs. I don't care where we draw the line -- whether we want over-the-cap teams to be able to send MLEs to rookies or not. LLEs and mins could be sufficient. Its all about how much want we want to tip the scales toward cap room.
theres no way of knowing where the line should be without testing the system for multiple seasons to see how much rookies are being offered |
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Post by killybing on Sept 4, 2020 15:14:34 GMT
They could acquire rookie through mins and LLEs. I don't care where we draw the line -- whether we want over-the-cap teams to be able to send MLEs to rookies or not. LLEs and mins could be sufficient. Its all about how much want we want to tip the scales toward cap room.
theres no way of knowing where the line should be without testing the system for multiple seasons to see how much rookies are being offered I mean obviously there is no way of knowing 100%, but we can still do thought experiments and make an educated guess about what we want. Thats the whole point of this thread. |
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Post by Majic on Sept 4, 2020 15:20:15 GMT
Now having reviewed that there should be an annual salary cap on a rookie contract that can be demoted so people can't yolo rookies onto big deals and just hide them off their books if they suck as a de facto amnesty I propose anything more than exactly 4.5 mil is not able to be demoted. Shouldn't be able to demote MLEs IMO - should be 4.49 mil and below IMO.
Teams could go over HC with an MLE rookie signing and then demote Sim 2. Don't like that idea.
we previously discussed having it match the 5 million extension limit. any rookie eligible for an extension can be demoted, anyone above that salary cannot. |
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Post by eric on Sept 4, 2020 15:26:09 GMT
Shouldn't be able to demote MLEs IMO - should be 4.49 mil and below IMO.
Teams could go over HC with an MLE rookie signing and then demote Sim 2. Don't like that idea.
we previously discussed having it match the 5 million extension limit. any rookie eligible for an extension can be demoted, anyone above that salary cannot. yes |
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Post by eric on Sept 4, 2020 15:27:48 GMT
Posting my questions in here so we have documented answers for reference. 1. Soft Cap rules apply for Rookie FA bids? Yes per eric 2. Based on answer 1, teams over SC can offer min, lle or MLE, can these be extended? 3. Are all other 1 year Rookie FA deals under 5 Mil eligible for 2 year extension (limit 1)? 4. Are there any new limits (inc. cap) associated for rookie demotions? 5. Are extended Rookies eligible for demotions beyond contract year 1? 6. Are we still limited to 15 bids per FA Day? 7. Can we extend a 2 yr rookie deal to a 3rd (like current 2nd round contracts)? 8. Can we decline the final 2 years of any rookie deal (like current 1st round contracts)? Think that's it for now. 8. no teams can and will get themselves into trouble with this but a) they should and b) i think the rookie scale max will keep it from being calamitous |
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