Post by TimPig on Oct 2, 2018 18:58:53 GMT
Below I rank what I believe are the 10 biggest trades so far in 5.0. I don’t have an official grading system, but I tried to take into account everything from immediate impact to future implications to league reaction.
Lots were tough to leave out, including trades involving big-time players like RJ Cole, Rui Hachimura, Stephon Templeton, Sam Perkins, and others, but I can only waste so much of a work day.
Honorable Mentions:
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1444/141-clippers-jazz - The trade that sent Clarence Withers to the Jazz gave Utah another elite wing and helped him win his second straight title in 2004. Four firsts went back to the Clippers, but they all belonged to the Jazz and Rockets, so it seems doubtful we see any of those turn into impact players.
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1920/196-knicks-bulls - I was supremely confident that Antawn Jamison would return to Chicago on a full max, and with Nick King in the picture, it didn’t look like Mason was going to be a starter before his rookie contract expired, at which point I would have no idea what kind of money he would demand. I’d lose some depth in trading Mason, but get a massive upgrade at center with Neon, as well as open cap flexibility in the future since he was expiring. The rest of it is history - Jamison left and I had to make a series of reactionary moves to try and cobble together a roster this year.
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1317/127-bulls-globetrotters - I had just resigned Halpert to a max and Jamison was looking like a promising rookie. I was confident Ingram would demand a max deal, but I favored Halpert over him because 1) he was already signed and 2) he played better defense. Wrong move on my part. Ingram has turned out to be a top three shooting guard in the league while receiving a sub-max salary.
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1040/100-grizzlies-nuggets - A possible future hall of famer, a first, and bucks for a point guard that no one seems to really be all that intersted in anymore. It didn’t take long for Druce to admit this was a bad deal for the Grizzlies, but in fairness to him, it was predicated on the successful completion of another deal that changed last minute.
10. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1725/176-spurs-blazers
Spurs send:
Caron Butler
Gooden
Globetrotters 07
Globetrotters 08
Knicks 08
Bulls 11
Blazers send:
Andre Turner
I questioned whether to put this deal or the deal sending Turner to the Nuggets in the tenth spot, but ultimately I think this one will have bigger implications as it kicked off the Portland rebuild faster than I think most would have expected. Butler is going to be a top wing for the next ten years, Gooden could be a solid third big, and Majic also added four firsts that can be used as trade bait. With the way the Bulls are shaping up, that Bulls 11 pick could end up being pretty valuable.
Turner, meanwhile, has struggled since being crowned “the best rookie build outside of Hakeem.” He’s now in Denver where he and MJ would seemingly make up a very good backcourt, but that team just doesn’t want to win. Fortunately for RW, he was able to recoup some of the losses in this trade by dealing Turner quickly and getting a solid big man in Kenyon Martin.
9. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1840/194-bucks-hornets
Hornets Send:
Shareef O'Neal
Alex Len
Michael Carter-Williams
Hornets 10
Hornets 11
Mavericks 09
Suns 09
Bucks Send:
Mohamed Bamba
A desperation move by Fecta that ultimately didn’t lead to a championship. The reasons he made the move were obvious, as O’Neal’s untimely injury put a serious damper on Charlotte’s championship hopes. A tradeback was agreed upon beforehand, which is the big reason I think this trade will have huge implications on the future of 5.0. Fecta was in the driver’s seat with a roster on track for 70ish wins, with something like seven or eight first round draft picks to deal to add to his arsenal. He traded most of those firsts for a rental that ultimately didn’t pan out.
Now, the Hornets are no longer far-and-away the best team in the league, preseason predictions be damned. They lost much of their depth in the offseason and their ability to replace that depth has been lost in a big way with the last minute move to rent Bamba, as well as the Jake Shuttlesworth rental that occurred around the same time.
8. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1742/181-mavs-knicks
Mavericks send:
Neon Boudeaux
Knicks send:
George Mikan
Knicks 11 1st
Knicks 11 2nd
10,000 AngryPig units
I don’t think either team necessarily got the better of this deal when looking at it strictly from an assets standpoint. To Delap’s credit, Mikan continues to be one of the best centers in the league while Neon has finally started showing his age. I’m not sure that if Neon is on the Dallas roster this season, they remain one of the top teams in the league, but the three years age difference between him and Mikan has allowed Dallas to extend their championship window by at least a year or two.
The Knicks 11 first is an underrated asset, as the only player under contract for the Knicks that year is Whitey Von Nieda. Firsto, Griner, and Jock will be 34, 37, and 35 respectively and while eric has continued to reload year after year, we’ll really start to see what he can do when Firsto and Jock start to show their age.
7. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/383/22-magic-kings
Magic Send:
Udoka Azubuike
Peyton Gragg
Magic 01
Magic 02
Magic 03
Kings send:
Gerald Martin Johanssen
Zeus Shuttlesworth
A trade that I’m sure Skrouse would prefer I don’t bring up, this may be the most one-sided trade in 5.0 to date. GMJ looked like a stud early in 2000 and the Magic already looked like one of the best teams in the league, so the opportunity to add a star was just too good to pass up.
Gragg, meanwhile, has turned into arguably the best power forward in the league - one who can play great defense and stretch the floor on offense and is still just 29 years old. GMJ hung around the league on MLEs before finally hanging it up this past offseason. The Magic never won a title and Gragg remains an MVP-caliber player if BK can ever build a team around him. Fortunately for the Magic, none of the first round picks they dealt ended up turning into much.
6. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/176/1-timberwolves-globetrotters
Timberwolves Send:
Creation 1.5
Creation 2.25
5k dump bucks AngryPig
Timberwolves 01
Globetrotters Send:
Creation 1.1
Creation 2.29
I tried to stay away from Creation draft trades as no one could have really known at that point what they’d turn into, but both Ian and Ward hit home runs with the picks that were swapped. Ian grabbed Sexton, who will come up again shortly in this article, while Dolph Schayes and his excellent grade set somehow fell all the way to 1.5 (insert comment about RJ Barrett going 1.2 here).
Neither of the second round picks ended up turning into much - DJ Hogg to the Globetrotters at 2.25 and Sim Dump to the T-Wolves at 2.29. The 01 first the Wolves sent was eventually dealt by the Globetrotters as well and turned into Kenny Gattison, so not much worth noting there.
Overall, it ended up being essentially a Collin Sexton for Dolph Schayes trade. Two elite players, but only one has a championship to his name.
5. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/822/71-mavs-spurs
Spurs send:
Neon Boudeaux
Mavericks send:
Jazz 03
Jazz 04
Jazz 05
Mavericks 04
Mavericks 05
Mavericks 06
Donte Grantham
Ian Miller
One of those draft picks ended up being Jake Tsakalidis, which, in hindsight, makes this trade look not so bad for the Spurs. At the time, it didn’t look like a good trade on MJ’s part as he acquired six firsts from contending teams for his all-league center. The rest of the picks turned out to include names like Mamadou N’Diaye, Seth Curry, Tim Hardaway Jr., and Casey Shaw. If not for the Jake T. pick, this may end up being a trade almost as one-sided as the Gragg-for-GMJ deal.
The Spurs, who had an average age of 47 after the Creation Draft, missed out on their brief championship window and tried to sell high on Neon. I’m not sure if there were other offers at the time, but I’m not sure this is a deal I would’ve made without the foresight of knowing Tsakalidis would be available at 1.19 some four seasons later.
4. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1648/164-bulls-bucks-mle
Bulls send:
Mohamed Bamba
Marcus Fizer
AJ Guyton
Jim Halpert
John Petty (MLE)
Knicks 09 1st
Knicks 10 1st
Bulls 09 1st
Bulls 10 1st
Bucks send:
DeAndre Ayton
Tacko Fall
Trevon Duval
Paul Pierce
A trade that will live in infamy as the one that caused Dump to quit. Sad!
In reality, this trade did raise a number of eyebrows around the league, but has not had the effect that many expected it would. The Bulls were one of the deepest teams in the league but didn’t really have any star talent. The Bucks were toiling in mediocrity with Ayton, so a shakeup didn’t seem like the worst idea. The pieces I expected to have the biggest impact going the other way - Bamba and Fizer - have both struggled since heading to Milwaukee, though Fizer much moreso than Bamba. AJ Guyton looks like the steal of the deal as he’s shown he can be a high-scoring point guard in a league that lacks a large number of them.
The Bulls didn’t win a championship when the year the trade happened and, like the Hornets above, sacrificed much of their depth and assets due to a lack of patience. Ayton is still only 27, but because of this trade, the Bulls lost a lot of their flexibility in their effort to add a single elite talent.
3. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1572/157-timberwolves-wizards-mle-involved
Wizards Send:
Elijah Thomas (MLE)
Raef LaFrentz
Drazen Petrovic
Isaiah Canaan
Chimp Godbolt
Clippers 06
Timberwolves 06
Wizards 06
Wizards 07
Wizards 08
Wizards 09
Timberwolves Send:
Collin Sexton
This is a rough one for the Wizards, who were unable to put together a good season despite having some elite talents in Sexton and Troy Brown. It didn’t take long for the Wizards to end their experiment, dealing Sexton back to Minnesota in exchange for some of the assets they traded to get him in the first place.
The Timberwolves, meanwhile, turned that 06 first into offensive powerhouse Amare Stoudemire, nabbed a good point guard in Isaiah Canaan, and were able to get Clyde Drexler at 1.1 with that Wizards 07 pick.
Some incredibly shrewd work by Ian, though I’m not sure even he would have predicted that the Wizards with Sexton would struggle as much as they did, eventually forcing Sexton back onto the trade block.
2. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1471/149-bulls-knicks-mle
Bulls send:
Jock Landale
Chalky Studebaker (MLE)
Knicks send:
Stan Haynes
Herb Jones
08 Knicks 1st
09 Knicks 1st
10 Knicks 1st
08 Knicks 2nd
09 Knicks 2nd
10 Knicks 2nd
The Knicks were hellbent on bringing Jock back home and his elite efficiency eventually helped them win their second title. The Bulls, in return, received what they believed to be an equivalent big in every way except age in Stan Haynes, plus one of the best defensive wings in the league in Herb Jones, plus three first round picks, for Jock, who fouled out way too much for their liking.
Two of those Knicks picks were eventually part of the aforementioned Ayton trade, and Haynes and Jones were both dealt in yet another display of impatience by the Bulls general manager to add guys like Brandon Griner and Alex Reese.
1. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1439/138-pacers-raptors
Raptors send:
1.3
Pacers send:
1.19
Pacers 06
Pacers 07
Pacers 08
Magic 07
This was, in my opinion, the most impactful trade of 5.0 so far. Herb was desperate to add Oladipo and sent five future firsts to the Raptors for the chance to do so. Insiders tell me the Raptors were torn between accepting Indiana’s offer or drafting Oladipo for themselves, but with Miles Bridges and Cuttino Mobley on the wings and no assurance that Oladipo would ever reach starting PG eligibility, the risk in drafting him seemed pretty great.
At the time, people didn’t think it was an awful deal for the Raptors, but those draft picks have...not panned out. 1.19 turned out to be Cody Zeller, who is no longer on the team. The other picks turned into Fred Jones, Sedale Threatt, and York Gross.
Oladipo, meanwhile, did end up getting his handles high enough to earn point guard eligibility, made the all-star game in his second year, and won Playoff MVP his second year.
Lots were tough to leave out, including trades involving big-time players like RJ Cole, Rui Hachimura, Stephon Templeton, Sam Perkins, and others, but I can only waste so much of a work day.
Honorable Mentions:
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1444/141-clippers-jazz - The trade that sent Clarence Withers to the Jazz gave Utah another elite wing and helped him win his second straight title in 2004. Four firsts went back to the Clippers, but they all belonged to the Jazz and Rockets, so it seems doubtful we see any of those turn into impact players.
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1920/196-knicks-bulls - I was supremely confident that Antawn Jamison would return to Chicago on a full max, and with Nick King in the picture, it didn’t look like Mason was going to be a starter before his rookie contract expired, at which point I would have no idea what kind of money he would demand. I’d lose some depth in trading Mason, but get a massive upgrade at center with Neon, as well as open cap flexibility in the future since he was expiring. The rest of it is history - Jamison left and I had to make a series of reactionary moves to try and cobble together a roster this year.
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1317/127-bulls-globetrotters - I had just resigned Halpert to a max and Jamison was looking like a promising rookie. I was confident Ingram would demand a max deal, but I favored Halpert over him because 1) he was already signed and 2) he played better defense. Wrong move on my part. Ingram has turned out to be a top three shooting guard in the league while receiving a sub-max salary.
tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1040/100-grizzlies-nuggets - A possible future hall of famer, a first, and bucks for a point guard that no one seems to really be all that intersted in anymore. It didn’t take long for Druce to admit this was a bad deal for the Grizzlies, but in fairness to him, it was predicated on the successful completion of another deal that changed last minute.
10. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1725/176-spurs-blazers
Spurs send:
Caron Butler
Gooden
Globetrotters 07
Globetrotters 08
Knicks 08
Bulls 11
Blazers send:
Andre Turner
I questioned whether to put this deal or the deal sending Turner to the Nuggets in the tenth spot, but ultimately I think this one will have bigger implications as it kicked off the Portland rebuild faster than I think most would have expected. Butler is going to be a top wing for the next ten years, Gooden could be a solid third big, and Majic also added four firsts that can be used as trade bait. With the way the Bulls are shaping up, that Bulls 11 pick could end up being pretty valuable.
Turner, meanwhile, has struggled since being crowned “the best rookie build outside of Hakeem.” He’s now in Denver where he and MJ would seemingly make up a very good backcourt, but that team just doesn’t want to win. Fortunately for RW, he was able to recoup some of the losses in this trade by dealing Turner quickly and getting a solid big man in Kenyon Martin.
9. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1840/194-bucks-hornets
Hornets Send:
Shareef O'Neal
Alex Len
Michael Carter-Williams
Hornets 10
Hornets 11
Mavericks 09
Suns 09
Bucks Send:
Mohamed Bamba
A desperation move by Fecta that ultimately didn’t lead to a championship. The reasons he made the move were obvious, as O’Neal’s untimely injury put a serious damper on Charlotte’s championship hopes. A tradeback was agreed upon beforehand, which is the big reason I think this trade will have huge implications on the future of 5.0. Fecta was in the driver’s seat with a roster on track for 70ish wins, with something like seven or eight first round draft picks to deal to add to his arsenal. He traded most of those firsts for a rental that ultimately didn’t pan out.
Now, the Hornets are no longer far-and-away the best team in the league, preseason predictions be damned. They lost much of their depth in the offseason and their ability to replace that depth has been lost in a big way with the last minute move to rent Bamba, as well as the Jake Shuttlesworth rental that occurred around the same time.
8. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1742/181-mavs-knicks
Mavericks send:
Neon Boudeaux
Knicks send:
George Mikan
Knicks 11 1st
Knicks 11 2nd
10,000 AngryPig units
I don’t think either team necessarily got the better of this deal when looking at it strictly from an assets standpoint. To Delap’s credit, Mikan continues to be one of the best centers in the league while Neon has finally started showing his age. I’m not sure that if Neon is on the Dallas roster this season, they remain one of the top teams in the league, but the three years age difference between him and Mikan has allowed Dallas to extend their championship window by at least a year or two.
The Knicks 11 first is an underrated asset, as the only player under contract for the Knicks that year is Whitey Von Nieda. Firsto, Griner, and Jock will be 34, 37, and 35 respectively and while eric has continued to reload year after year, we’ll really start to see what he can do when Firsto and Jock start to show their age.
7. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/383/22-magic-kings
Magic Send:
Udoka Azubuike
Peyton Gragg
Magic 01
Magic 02
Magic 03
Kings send:
Gerald Martin Johanssen
Zeus Shuttlesworth
A trade that I’m sure Skrouse would prefer I don’t bring up, this may be the most one-sided trade in 5.0 to date. GMJ looked like a stud early in 2000 and the Magic already looked like one of the best teams in the league, so the opportunity to add a star was just too good to pass up.
Gragg, meanwhile, has turned into arguably the best power forward in the league - one who can play great defense and stretch the floor on offense and is still just 29 years old. GMJ hung around the league on MLEs before finally hanging it up this past offseason. The Magic never won a title and Gragg remains an MVP-caliber player if BK can ever build a team around him. Fortunately for the Magic, none of the first round picks they dealt ended up turning into much.
6. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/176/1-timberwolves-globetrotters
Timberwolves Send:
Creation 1.5
Creation 2.25
5k dump bucks AngryPig
Timberwolves 01
Globetrotters Send:
Creation 1.1
Creation 2.29
I tried to stay away from Creation draft trades as no one could have really known at that point what they’d turn into, but both Ian and Ward hit home runs with the picks that were swapped. Ian grabbed Sexton, who will come up again shortly in this article, while Dolph Schayes and his excellent grade set somehow fell all the way to 1.5 (insert comment about RJ Barrett going 1.2 here).
Neither of the second round picks ended up turning into much - DJ Hogg to the Globetrotters at 2.25 and Sim Dump to the T-Wolves at 2.29. The 01 first the Wolves sent was eventually dealt by the Globetrotters as well and turned into Kenny Gattison, so not much worth noting there.
Overall, it ended up being essentially a Collin Sexton for Dolph Schayes trade. Two elite players, but only one has a championship to his name.
5. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/822/71-mavs-spurs
Spurs send:
Neon Boudeaux
Mavericks send:
Jazz 03
Jazz 04
Jazz 05
Mavericks 04
Mavericks 05
Mavericks 06
Donte Grantham
Ian Miller
One of those draft picks ended up being Jake Tsakalidis, which, in hindsight, makes this trade look not so bad for the Spurs. At the time, it didn’t look like a good trade on MJ’s part as he acquired six firsts from contending teams for his all-league center. The rest of the picks turned out to include names like Mamadou N’Diaye, Seth Curry, Tim Hardaway Jr., and Casey Shaw. If not for the Jake T. pick, this may end up being a trade almost as one-sided as the Gragg-for-GMJ deal.
The Spurs, who had an average age of 47 after the Creation Draft, missed out on their brief championship window and tried to sell high on Neon. I’m not sure if there were other offers at the time, but I’m not sure this is a deal I would’ve made without the foresight of knowing Tsakalidis would be available at 1.19 some four seasons later.
4. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1648/164-bulls-bucks-mle
Bulls send:
Mohamed Bamba
Marcus Fizer
AJ Guyton
Jim Halpert
John Petty (MLE)
Knicks 09 1st
Knicks 10 1st
Bulls 09 1st
Bulls 10 1st
Bucks send:
DeAndre Ayton
Tacko Fall
Trevon Duval
Paul Pierce
A trade that will live in infamy as the one that caused Dump to quit. Sad!
In reality, this trade did raise a number of eyebrows around the league, but has not had the effect that many expected it would. The Bulls were one of the deepest teams in the league but didn’t really have any star talent. The Bucks were toiling in mediocrity with Ayton, so a shakeup didn’t seem like the worst idea. The pieces I expected to have the biggest impact going the other way - Bamba and Fizer - have both struggled since heading to Milwaukee, though Fizer much moreso than Bamba. AJ Guyton looks like the steal of the deal as he’s shown he can be a high-scoring point guard in a league that lacks a large number of them.
The Bulls didn’t win a championship when the year the trade happened and, like the Hornets above, sacrificed much of their depth and assets due to a lack of patience. Ayton is still only 27, but because of this trade, the Bulls lost a lot of their flexibility in their effort to add a single elite talent.
3. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1572/157-timberwolves-wizards-mle-involved
Wizards Send:
Elijah Thomas (MLE)
Raef LaFrentz
Drazen Petrovic
Isaiah Canaan
Chimp Godbolt
Clippers 06
Timberwolves 06
Wizards 06
Wizards 07
Wizards 08
Wizards 09
Timberwolves Send:
Collin Sexton
This is a rough one for the Wizards, who were unable to put together a good season despite having some elite talents in Sexton and Troy Brown. It didn’t take long for the Wizards to end their experiment, dealing Sexton back to Minnesota in exchange for some of the assets they traded to get him in the first place.
The Timberwolves, meanwhile, turned that 06 first into offensive powerhouse Amare Stoudemire, nabbed a good point guard in Isaiah Canaan, and were able to get Clyde Drexler at 1.1 with that Wizards 07 pick.
Some incredibly shrewd work by Ian, though I’m not sure even he would have predicted that the Wizards with Sexton would struggle as much as they did, eventually forcing Sexton back onto the trade block.
2. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1471/149-bulls-knicks-mle
Bulls send:
Jock Landale
Chalky Studebaker (MLE)
Knicks send:
Stan Haynes
Herb Jones
08 Knicks 1st
09 Knicks 1st
10 Knicks 1st
08 Knicks 2nd
09 Knicks 2nd
10 Knicks 2nd
The Knicks were hellbent on bringing Jock back home and his elite efficiency eventually helped them win their second title. The Bulls, in return, received what they believed to be an equivalent big in every way except age in Stan Haynes, plus one of the best defensive wings in the league in Herb Jones, plus three first round picks, for Jock, who fouled out way too much for their liking.
Two of those Knicks picks were eventually part of the aforementioned Ayton trade, and Haynes and Jones were both dealt in yet another display of impatience by the Bulls general manager to add guys like Brandon Griner and Alex Reese.
1. tmbsl5.proboards.com/thread/1439/138-pacers-raptors
Raptors send:
1.3
Pacers send:
1.19
Pacers 06
Pacers 07
Pacers 08
Magic 07
This was, in my opinion, the most impactful trade of 5.0 so far. Herb was desperate to add Oladipo and sent five future firsts to the Raptors for the chance to do so. Insiders tell me the Raptors were torn between accepting Indiana’s offer or drafting Oladipo for themselves, but with Miles Bridges and Cuttino Mobley on the wings and no assurance that Oladipo would ever reach starting PG eligibility, the risk in drafting him seemed pretty great.
At the time, people didn’t think it was an awful deal for the Raptors, but those draft picks have...not panned out. 1.19 turned out to be Cody Zeller, who is no longer on the team. The other picks turned into Fred Jones, Sedale Threatt, and York Gross.
Oladipo, meanwhile, did end up getting his handles high enough to earn point guard eligibility, made the all-star game in his second year, and won Playoff MVP his second year.
