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Post by eric on Jun 14, 2018 16:53:27 GMT
Skrouse fucked up with trading Gragg and 1sts for GMJ. In 4.0 system he'd rebuilt and bk would have been able to offer him those 1sts back along with 3 other Kings firsts for Griner. @billykinggm did you ever offer those 6 firsts for Griner in 5.0? skrouse would you have taken that offer? |
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Post by Majic on Jun 14, 2018 17:06:45 GMT
thank you Ian
agree with all stated above
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Post by eric on Jun 14, 2018 17:54:24 GMT
thank you Ian agree with all stated above it's all supposition. i can just as easily suppose: i offered four firsts for a player in 4.0 and got turned down because they were late lottos now that lotto is unweighted, that trade would be accepted. you don't find that convincing. you should expect the same level of not finding it convincing the other way around or you're not going to get anywhere. |
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Post by TimPig on Jun 14, 2018 17:59:28 GMT
I gambled on Chalky being able to get me over the hump, that didn't work out. H/T could have offered me my firsts back along with a lucractive enough package to maybe get Sexton and I would have traded Mountain Dew and Leslie etc for pieces to rebuild. Those pieces could have created another 1 or 2 contenders in the league. Instead I'm fine with playing .500-.600 ball and coast until I have my 1sts back then tank for 8th/9th seeds. H/T would've offered you your picks and...what else? His picks, I guess? So then H/T would have been stuck with Sexton and nothing else, and would've basically been in the same position you'd have been had you kept Sexton (except probably worse, since he wouldn't have had those other pieces to trade and rebuild around). That doesn't seem like it'd appeal to him. |
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Post by skrouse on Jun 14, 2018 18:10:36 GMT
Skrouse fucked up with trading Gragg and 1sts for GMJ. In 4.0 system he'd rebuilt and bk would have been able to offer him those 1sts back along with 3 other Kings firsts for Griner. Bk would have been maybe on par with the Rockets/Clippers. Instead that trade doesn't happen in 5.0 and BK is stuck playing .333 ball (for some reason) Pretty sure in 4.0 i couldve played gragg at the 3 and never would have traded him |
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Post by Majic on Jun 14, 2018 18:26:27 GMT
thank you Ian agree with all stated above it's all supposition. i can just as easily suppose: i offered four firsts for a player in 4.0 and got turned down because they were late lottos now that lotto is unweighted, that trade would be accepted. you don't find that convincing. you should expect the same level of not finding it convincing the other way around or you're not going to get anywhere. I am done discussing it and honestly theres never really a point to discussing much of anything pertaining to changes in the league moving forward the entire reason for this thread was to try and have a real discussion on why some feel the league has stagnated a bit all it did was turn into a bitch fest with people not willing to discuss and just getting angry. we will forever just go along with what the commissioner wants so theres no real reason discussing or having open forums. |
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Post by eric on Jun 14, 2018 18:46:11 GMT
it's all supposition. i can just as easily suppose: i offered four firsts for a player in 4.0 and got turned down because they were late lottos now that lotto is unweighted, that trade would be accepted. you don't find that convincing. you should expect the same level of not finding it convincing the other way around or you're not going to get anywhere. I am done discussing it and honestly theres never really a point to discussing much of anything pertaining to changes in the league moving forward the entire reason for this thread was to try and have a real discussion on why some feel the league has stagnated a bit all it did was turn into a bitch fest with people not willing to discuss and just getting angry. we will forever just go along with what the commissioner wants so theres no real reason discussing or having open forums. you never started discussing it no one has cited a single trade proposal that the unweighted lotto stopped. ian is the only one who even tried, and the one he cited turned out to be wrong per skrouse. no one has disputed that we had stagnant trade markets in 4.0 under a weighted lotto. if you want a conversation, you have to respond to what people say, not just calmly say your thing again. if you don't want a conversation that's fine too, just keep that in mind and you'll have more managed expectations next time you don't convince anyone. |
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Post by jhb on Jun 14, 2018 18:47:50 GMT
My thoughts on the league are that some of you think about the league too much.
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Post by jhb on Jun 14, 2018 18:48:47 GMT
Also sometimes I feel like "stagnant trade market" is code for "I'm really frustrated I haven't been able to rip someone off with a really one-sided trade lately"
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Post by Majic on Jun 14, 2018 18:49:38 GMT
I am done discussing it and honestly theres never really a point to discussing much of anything pertaining to changes in the league moving forward the entire reason for this thread was to try and have a real discussion on why some feel the league has stagnated a bit all it did was turn into a bitch fest with people not willing to discuss and just getting angry. we will forever just go along with what the commissioner wants so theres no real reason discussing or having open forums. you never started discussing it no one has cited a single trade proposal that the unweighted lotto stopped. ian is the only one who even tried, and the one he cited turned out to be wrong per skrouse. no one has disputed that we had stagnant trade markets in 4.0 under a weighted lotto. if you want a conversation, you have to respond to what people say, not just calmly say your thing again. if you don't want a conversation that's fine too, just keep that in mind and you'll have more managed expectations next time you don't convince anyone. thank you for this thought provoking response. really appreciated. |
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ahebrewtoo
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Post by ahebrewtoo on Jun 14, 2018 18:51:30 GMT
it's all supposition. i can just as easily suppose: i offered four firsts for a player in 4.0 and got turned down because they were late lottos now that lotto is unweighted, that trade would be accepted. you don't find that convincing. you should expect the same level of not finding it convincing the other way around or you're not going to get anywhere. I am done discussing it I’ve got action on this if anyone is interested. I’m taking “Majic is not done discussing this” for as many TimPigs as you want to give me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Post by pedro el guapo on Jun 14, 2018 18:51:50 GMT
Also sometimes I feel like "stagnant trade market" is code for "I'm really frustrated I haven't been able to rip someone off with a really one-sided trade lately" Or maybe "no one has offered me a trade in a while so the market is dead" |
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Post by Druce on Jun 14, 2018 18:55:35 GMT
Also sometimes I feel like "stagnant trade market" is code for "I'm really frustrated I haven't been able to rip someone off with a really one-sided trade lately" Or maybe "no one has offered me a trade in a while so the market is dead" I've offered many trades lately and gotten little to no response or negotiation. |
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Post by TimPig on Jun 14, 2018 19:04:01 GMT
Or maybe "no one has offered me a trade in a while so the market is dead" I've offered many trades lately and gotten little to no response or negotiation.  |
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Post by Taco: Better than a Nacho on Jun 15, 2018 4:20:32 GMT
I'm not around because my team sucks and there's basically no way to improve except hoping to get lucky in the draft (to this point). I'll join more of the FA market once I clear the cap from my horrible creation draft picks.
I've been decently active in the trade market and I've just been hoping to 1. get more lotto picks to get better to move up in the league and 2. build my dump buck coffers when I'm ready to go.
The unweighted lotto, while not rewarding tanking, has the obvious potential of keeping shitty teams shitty for longer and therefore GMs lose interest. I understand the concept of it but the weighted lotto provides an ebb and flow to the league where GMs "know" they will most likely be back in it in a couple years. I'm in year 3 of a "tank" and there's no real end in sight. There's basically zero chance my team is worth anything until at least 2005 and that's only if I'm lucky.
I have basically not participated in anything including the G-League because I don't see them as a viable option to get better.
I'm not bitching or blaming anything....just saying where I am as a GM.
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Post by Mike on Jun 15, 2018 4:32:11 GMT
Kind of what I said earlier in shout.
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Post by jhb on Jun 15, 2018 11:22:52 GMT
My starting PF and backup PG came from G-league. I have yet to make a first round pick post-creation or take advantage of the lottery. I signed a max player to a min contract (Bonga) in year 2. Had you been paying attention you could have signed him with an MLE and extended him. Deng Adel is playing at a pretty elite level (and LiAngelo Ball to a lesser extent) right now on MLE-level contracts. I got my starting center by trading for his long-term deal for an expiring.
I lost my first round creation pick because I mismanaged my cap situation and hurt my own cap flexibility in FA. I had to buy out a huge second round bust from creation. I gave up a good amount of future draft capital to draft some bust teenagers in rounds 7-9. The only player I have left from creation who didn't start their career in G-league is a point guard who is averaging 4 turnovers a game.
If you're blaming lack of upward mobility in sim league on league structure, you're really blaming your own laziness and lack of GM savvy because you want the easy road of having a dynasty handed to you by sitting at the bottom of the league for a few years and accumulating dynastic players.
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Post by jhb on Jun 15, 2018 11:24:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 12:05:18 GMT
Maybe some of the article types that we're banned (GM's as ____) could help bring back more interest in the league
Always thought it was kinda dumb Odin just decided to ban certain articles even if people liked them enough to vote
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Post by Taco: Better than a Nacho on Jun 15, 2018 13:05:31 GMT
jhb I think one reason people may be less interested in that they post their opinions about the league and then get berated by GMs who got lucky about how its their own fault their team sucks ass. I could go through my entire career in 5.0 but I think I have done a damn good job of GMing in 5.0 given how horrible my creation draft was. I creation drafted one starting quality player and he's a Def/Reb big. I got for Okobo for basically nothing. I drafted Duckworth, Gattison, and Price.....then flipped Price for what appears to be two lottery picks. The one time I was able to participate in FA, I signed a 25ppg big man who I just flipped for another 1st rounder. Save me your high and mighty bullshit about how you're a great GM and I suck when we are having a civil convo about the state of the league.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 13:15:05 GMT
jhb I think one reason people may be less interested in that they post their opinions about the league and then get berated by GMs who got lucky about how its their own fault their team sucks ass. I could go through my entire career in 5.0 but I think I have done a damn good job of GMing in 5.0 given how horrible my creation draft was. I creation drafted one starting quality player and he's a Def/Reb big. I trade for Okobo for basically nothing. I drafted Duckworth, Gattison, and Price.....then flipped Price for what appears to be two lottery picks. They one time I was able to participate in FA, I got signed a 25ppg big man who I just flipped for another 1st rounder. Save me your high and mighty bullshit about how you're a great GM and I suck when we are having a civil convo about the state of the league. Taco you've done a great job as GMing after drawing the short straw in the creation draft. The timeline is still really short people forget how long it took to tank in the old league. I mean Fason could do it in 2-3 years and be competitive again but it took me about 4 and I think most other GMs the same amount. I'm not sure yet if the unweighted lotto is really gonna make it take that much longer. I think post-creation is just a unique scenario, right? Your team was so devoid of talent it was like a roster that someone completely traded away to tank in 4.0 The unweighted lotto isn't designed to improve rosters that bad. After the creation people get close to retirement I think you'll see timelines more similar to in 4.0 there were some teams in 4.0 that were constantly at the bottom of the standings even though they got top 5 picks Once its 2010 and no one has a roster that is 12 players worse than the average roster I think you'll see an easier time for the bad teams. but there will always be perpetually bad teams. you've done a great job so far but a bad creation draft takes longer to dig out of than the kind of "bad" we should be seeing in the future. |
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Post by Taco: Better than a Nacho on Jun 15, 2018 13:28:08 GMT
jhb I think one reason people may be less interested in that they post their opinions about the league and then get berated by GMs who got lucky about how its their own fault their team sucks ass. I could go through my entire career in 5.0 but I think I have done a damn good job of GMing in 5.0 given how horrible my creation draft was. I creation drafted one starting quality player and he's a Def/Reb big. I trade for Okobo for basically nothing. I drafted Duckworth, Gattison, and Price.....then flipped Price for what appears to be two lottery picks. They one time I was able to participate in FA, I got signed a 25ppg big man who I just flipped for another 1st rounder. Save me your high and mighty bullshit about how you're a great GM and I suck when we are having a civil convo about the state of the league. Taco you've done a great job as GMing after drawing the short straw in the creation draft. The timeline is still really short people forget how long it took to tank in the old league. I mean Fason could do it in 2-3 years and be competitive again but it took me about 4 and I think most other GMs the same amount. I'm not sure yet if the unweighted lotto is really gonna make it take that much longer. I think post-creation is just a unique scenario, right? Your team was so devoid of talent it was like a roster that someone completely traded away to tank in 4.0 The unweighted lotto isn't designed to improve rosters that bad. After the creation people get close to retirement I think you'll see timelines more similar to in 4.0 there were some teams in 4.0 that were constantly at the bottom of the standings even though they got top 5 picks Once its 2010 and no one has a roster that is 12 players worse than the average roster I think you'll see an easier time for the bad teams. but there will always be perpetually bad teams. you've done a great job so far but a bad creation draft takes longer to dig out of than the kind of "bad" we should be seeing in the future. That's a fair assessment. I'm not leaving the league because I am kind of disinterested right now. I just know I put myself in a major, major hole with the creation draft and its gonna take awhile to get out of that hole. Post-creation is absolutely a unique scenario. I'm just doing what I can to move the garbage and continue to put the Warriors in a position to excel when the right time comes along. Just annoyed that JHB acts like I could have done something to be a top team already, which is comical. |
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ahebrewtoo
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Post by ahebrewtoo on Jun 15, 2018 13:29:59 GMT
My starting PF and backup PG came from G-league. I have yet to make a first round pick post-creation or take advantage of the lottery. I signed a max player to a min contract (Bonga) in year 2. Had you been paying attention you could have signed him with an MLE and extended him. Deng Adel is playing at a pretty elite level (and LiAngelo Ball to a lesser extent) right now on MLE-level contracts. I got my starting center by trading for his long-term deal for an expiring. I lost my first round creation pick because I mismanaged my cap situation and hurt my own cap flexibility in FA. I had to buy out a huge second round bust from creation. I gave up a good amount of future draft capital to draft some bust teenagers in rounds 7-9. The only player I have left from creation who didn't start their career in G-league is a point guard who is averaging 4 turnovers a game. If you're blaming lack of upward mobility in sim league on league structure, you're really blaming your own laziness and lack of GM savvy because you want the easy road of having a dynasty handed to you by sitting at the bottom of the league for a few years and accumulating dynastic players. Bravo Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Post by Majic on Jun 15, 2018 13:33:19 GMT
jhb I think one reason people may be less interested in that they post their opinions about the league and then get berated by GMs who got lucky about how its their own fault their team sucks ass. I could go through my entire career in 5.0 but I think I have done a damn good job of GMing in 5.0 given how horrible my creation draft was. I creation drafted one starting quality player and he's a Def/Reb big. I trade for Okobo for basically nothing. I drafted Duckworth, Gattison, and Price.....then flipped Price for what appears to be two lottery picks. They one time I was able to participate in FA, I got signed a 25ppg big man who I just flipped for another 1st rounder. Save me your high and mighty bullshit about how you're a great GM and I suck when we are having a civil convo about the state of the league. Taco you've done a great job as GMing after drawing the short straw in the creation draft. The timeline is still really short people forget how long it took to tank in the old league. I mean Fason could do it in 2-3 years and be competitive again but it took me about 4 and I think most other GMs the same amount. I'm not sure yet if the unweighted lotto is really gonna make it take that much longer. I think post-creation is just a unique scenario, right? Your team was so devoid of talent it was like a roster that someone completely traded away to tank in 4.0 The unweighted lotto isn't designed to improve rosters that bad. After the creation people get close to retirement I think you'll see timelines more similar to in 4.0 there were some teams in 4.0 that were constantly at the bottom of the standings even though they got top 5 picks Once its 2010 and no one has a roster that is 12 players worse than the average roster I think you'll see an easier time for the bad teams. but there will always be perpetually bad teams. you've done a great job so far but a bad creation draft takes longer to dig out of than the kind of "bad" we should be seeing in the future. this is actually a well thought out and good assessment of things. nice job BK |
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Post by TimPig on Jun 15, 2018 13:38:54 GMT
My starting PF and backup PG came from G-league. I have yet to make a first round pick post-creation or take advantage of the lottery. I signed a max player to a min contract (Bonga) in year 2. Had you been paying attention you could have signed him with an MLE and extended him. Deng Adel is playing at a pretty elite level (and LiAngelo Ball to a lesser extent) right now on MLE-level contracts. I got my starting center by trading for his long-term deal for an expiring. I lost my first round creation pick because I mismanaged my cap situation and hurt my own cap flexibility in FA. I had to buy out a huge second round bust from creation. I gave up a good amount of future draft capital to draft some bust teenagers in rounds 7-9. The only player I have left from creation who didn't start their career in G-league is a point guard who is averaging 4 turnovers a game. If you're blaming lack of upward mobility in sim league on league structure, you're really blaming your own laziness and lack of GM savvy because you want the easy road of having a dynasty handed to you by sitting at the bottom of the league for a few years and accumulating dynastic players. I do really like the fact that this isn't a thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 13:46:18 GMT
My starting PF and backup PG came from G-league. I have yet to make a first round pick post-creation or take advantage of the lottery. I signed a max player to a min contract (Bonga) in year 2. Had you been paying attention you could have signed him with an MLE and extended him. Deng Adel is playing at a pretty elite level (and LiAngelo Ball to a lesser extent) right now on MLE-level contracts. I got my starting center by trading for his long-term deal for an expiring. I lost my first round creation pick because I mismanaged my cap situation and hurt my own cap flexibility in FA. I had to buy out a huge second round bust from creation. I gave up a good amount of future draft capital to draft some bust teenagers in rounds 7-9. The only player I have left from creation who didn't start their career in G-league is a point guard who is averaging 4 turnovers a game. If you're blaming lack of upward mobility in sim league on league structure, you're really blaming your own laziness and lack of GM savvy because you want the easy road of having a dynasty handed to you by sitting at the bottom of the league for a few years and accumulating dynastic players. I do really like the fact that this isn't a thing. There's no majic recipe to keep it from happening. Andrew luck was being andrew suck, much much worse than what taco was doing, and then he had a dynasty handed to him and did less work to get there than someone rebuilding 4.0 style |
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Post by jhb on Jun 15, 2018 14:10:39 GMT
I just don't get why everyone wants to whine and bitch about being a lazy GM.
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Post by eric on Jun 15, 2018 14:31:43 GMT
Taco you've done a great job as GMing after drawing the short straw in the creation draft. The timeline is still really short people forget how long it took to tank in the old league. I mean Fason could do it in 2-3 years and be competitive again but it took me about 4 and I think most other GMs the same amount. I'm not sure yet if the unweighted lotto is really gonna make it take that much longer. I think post-creation is just a unique scenario, right? Your team was so devoid of talent it was like a roster that someone completely traded away to tank in 4.0 The unweighted lotto isn't designed to improve rosters that bad. After the creation people get close to retirement I think you'll see timelines more similar to in 4.0 there were some teams in 4.0 that were constantly at the bottom of the standings even though they got top 5 picks Once its 2010 and no one has a roster that is 12 players worse than the average roster I think you'll see an easier time for the bad teams. but there will always be perpetually bad teams. you've done a great job so far but a bad creation draft takes longer to dig out of than the kind of "bad" we should be seeing in the future. That's a fair assessment. I'm not leaving the league because I am kind of disinterested right now. I just know I put myself in a major, major hole with the creation draft and its gonna take awhile to get out of that hole. Post-creation is absolutely a unique scenario. I'm just doing what I can to move the garbage and continue to put the Warriors in a position to excel when the right time comes along. Just annoyed that JHB acts like I could have done something to be a top team already, which is comical. don't you agree that you could be doing more though even besides g-league, what's keeping you from signing guys off FA and trying them out during the league for example, what would Kassius Robertson do as a #1 option? Dell Curry's got A- Outside and never gotten real minutes, is there a player there? |
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Post by jhb on Jun 15, 2018 14:42:29 GMT
Every year you can find young players with MLE and LLE and give them a trial for half a season and extend them until they have birds if they're worth keeping. Not a lot of bad teams that are capped are even trying to do this.
You can go after even more in G-league.
You're not exhausting all your potential avenues.
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Post by TimPig on Jun 15, 2018 15:38:59 GMT
I do really like the fact that this isn't a thing. There's no majic recipe to keep it from happening. Andrew luck was being andrew suck, much much worse than what taco was doing, and then he had a dynasty handed to him and did less work to get there than someone rebuilding 4.0 style The Suns are 11-16 and he's been trying to make moves for two seasons. |
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