Budda Baker (191 views)

[TimPig]

A little disappointed fason went and looked up Budda's stats before I could, but I digress.

Let's take a look back at the trade God-King eric demanded be vetoed due to the obvious collusion that was occurring.

Budda Baker, given the opportunity to start in season 3057 of 4.0:

Budda Baker PG 82 30.4 25.8 4.0 7.3 1.7 0.3 1.2 .479 .857 .419

- Denver Nuggets win the Western Conference with a 53-29 record
- Denver Nuggets make it to the Western Conference Finals before losing to the Sonics
- Age 24 (10 years younger than Lonzo Ball) and paid $2,122,696
- Fewest TOs per game (1.2) of any starting point guard on a playoff team
- Was not traded for Barry Sanders and did not promptly leave in free agency
- Still had the ability to go +10 with both his inside and jumper capped

Lonzo Ball PG 82 37.8 24.5 8.5 5.0 2.1 0.5 1.3 .473 .852 .429

- Kansas City Kings go 30-52 and earn the coveted 12 seed in the West
- Kansas City Kings do not make it to the Western Conference Finals and therefore do not lose to the Sonics
- Age 34 (not 10 years younger than Lonzo Ball) and paid $25,806,296 | $27,612,737 | $29,334,375 = $82,753,408 across three years
- Averaged more turnovers than Budda Baker (1.3) as a shooting guard
- Was traded for Barry Sanders who promptly left in free agency
- Did not have the ability to go +10

[Deleted]

how is this "off-topic" this is THE topic

[ahebrewtoo]

Is there a reason, other than intellectual dishonesty, that you neglected to list Barry Sanders production?

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 14:09:50 GMT ahebrewtoo said:

Is there a reason, other than intellectual dishonesty, that you neglected to list Barry Sanders production?

I neglected to list Barry Sanders because, just like when the trade was made, he shouldn't have been a part of the conversation.

[ahebrewtoo]

Apr 23, 2018 14:16:33 GMT TimPig said:

Apr 23, 2018 14:09:50 GMT ahebrewtoo said:

Is there a reason, other than intellectual dishonesty, that you neglected to list Barry Sanders production?

I neglected to list Barry Sanders because, just like when the trade was made, he shouldn't have been a part of the conversation.

Weird, because you mentioned Barry as part of your conversation .  .  .

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 14:24:38 GMT ahebrewtoo said:

Apr 23, 2018 14:16:33 GMT TimPig said:

I neglected to list Barry Sanders because, just like when the trade was made, he shouldn't have been a part of the conversation.

Weird, because you mentioned Barry as part of your conversation .  .  .

In actuality it's because there's no argument that Budda Baker was better than Barry Sanders. Yet another factor that went into the trade but refused to be acknowledged because PTS/TSA!!!!11 was the fact that Barry had an expiring contract.

[eric]

Lonzo Ball - 12 win shares
Budda Baker - 10 win shares

Barry Sanders - 13 win shares

Lonzo year four - 16 win shares, All-Defensive Team



No wait. I DO k. Baker was never a young Lonzo and was never the best offer you had, and development has borne that assessment out. Baker could have hit some Garnett TCs and gotten there, or he could have had some JBC TCs and stayed below replacement level. He actually got roughly average TCs, which is what you should expect for any given player.

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 14:54:38 GMT eric said:

Lonzo Ball - 12 win shares
Budda Baker - 10 win shares

Barry Sanders - 13 win shares

Lonzo year four - 16 win shares, All-Defensive Team



No wait. I DO k. Baker was never a young Lonzo and was never the best offer you had, and development has borne that assessment out. Baker could have hit some Garnett TCs and gotten there, or he could have had some JBC TCs and stayed below replacement level. He actually got roughly average TCs, which is what you should expect for any given player.

Woah. You mean Lonzo four years into his career was better than Budda four years into his career?

Alert the TMBSL gazette! We should definitely veto any trade where there's a two win share difference between players separated by 10 years in age and over $80 million in total contract value that also includes two first round draft picks.

Let's save the Barry Sanders talk until after any decisions have been made, just like any proposal including Barry Sanders was saved until after a deal had already been agreed to kthx.

[Muzunga]

Also with Budda was two first round picks just as a reminder and at the time of the trade was easily the best offer Timpig had.

[ahebrewtoo]

3055 Budda Baker: 67 potential, 83 Inside, 95 jumper, 49 3pt shot, 99 handling, 79 quickness, 58 passing, 81 stealing, 26 shot blocking, 5 post d, 15 perimeter defense, 11 drive d, 5 off reb, 36 def reb, 26 str, 72 jumping

3057 Budda Baker: 55 potential (-12), 79 inside (-4), 90 jumper (-5), 54 3pt (+5), 96 handling (-3), 85 quickness (+6), 52 passing (-6), 78 stealing (-3), 25 shot blocking (-1), 8 post d (+3), 14 perimeter d (-1), 11 drive def (even), 8 off reb (+3), 41 def reb (+5), 35 str (+9), 77 jumping (+5)

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 16:14:19 GMT ahebrewtoo said:

3055 Budda Baker: 67 potential, 83 Inside, 95 jumper, 49 3pt shot, 99 handling, 79 quickness, 58 passing, 81 stealing, 26 shot blocking, 5 post d, 15 perimeter defense, 11 drive d, 5 off reb, 36 def reb, 26 str, 72 jumping

3057 Budda Baker: 55 potential (-12), 79 inside (-4), 90 jumper (-5), 54 3pt (+5), 96 handling (-3), 85 quickness (+6), 52 passing (-6), 78 stealing (-3), 25 shot blocking (-1), 8 post d (+3), 14 perimeter d (-1), 11 drive def (even), 8 off reb (+3), 41 def reb (+5), 35 str (+9), 77 jumping (+5)

Now do Lonzo.

And Barry.

Because all of this information was available at the time of the trade. Just like it is before every trade.

Which is why I'm asking for it now.

[ahebrewtoo]

Apr 23, 2018 16:20:40 GMT TimPig said:

Apr 23, 2018 16:14:19 GMT ahebrewtoo said:

3055 Budda Baker: 67 potential, 83 Inside, 95 jumper, 49 3pt shot, 99 handling, 79 quickness, 58 passing, 81 stealing, 26 shot blocking, 5 post d, 15 perimeter defense, 11 drive d, 5 off reb, 36 def reb, 26 str, 72 jumping

3057 Budda Baker: 55 potential (-12), 79 inside (-4), 90 jumper (-5), 54 3pt (+5), 96 handling (-3), 85 quickness (+6), 52 passing (-6), 78 stealing (-3), 25 shot blocking (-1), 8 post d (+3), 14 perimeter d (-1), 11 drive def (even), 8 off reb (+3), 41 def reb (+5), 35 str (+9), 77 jumping (+5)

Now do Lonzo.

And Barry.

Because all of this information was available at the time of the trade. Just like it is before every trade.

Which is why I'm asking for it now.

That was mostly for eric, so he could see exactly how Baker did in TCs. 


It's impressive to me how good eric is at predicting the underlying attributes of a player.

It's equally impressive to me how bad eric is at the rookie ladder.

[eric]

Apr 23, 2018 16:09:23 GMT TimPig said:

Apr 23, 2018 14:54:38 GMT eric said:

Lonzo Ball - 12 win shares
Budda Baker - 10 win shares

Barry Sanders - 13 win shares

Lonzo year four - 16 win shares, All-Defensive Team



No wait. I DO k. Baker was never a young Lonzo and was never the best offer you had, and development has borne that assessment out. Baker could have hit some Garnett TCs and gotten there, or he could have had some JBC TCs and stayed below replacement level. He actually got roughly average TCs, which is what you should expect for any given player.

Woah. You mean Lonzo four years into his career was better than Budda four years into his career?

Alert the TMBSL gazette! We should definitely veto any trade where there's a two win share difference between players separated by 10 years in age and over $80 million in total contract value that also includes two first round draft picks.

Let's save the Barry Sanders talk until after any decisions have been made, just like any proposal including Barry Sanders was saved until after a deal had already been agreed to kthx.

do you even know what your argument is anymore

[eric]

Apr 23, 2018 16:26:37 GMT ahebrewtoo said:

That was mostly for eric, so he could see exactly how Baker did in TCs. 


It's impressive to me how good eric is at predicting the underlying attributes of a player.

It's equally impressive to me how bad eric is at the rookie ladder.

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 16:37:07 GMT eric said:

Apr 23, 2018 16:09:23 GMT TimPig said:

Woah. You mean Lonzo four years into his career was better than Budda four years into his career?

Alert the TMBSL gazette! We should definitely veto any trade where there's a two win share difference between players separated by 10 years in age and over $80 million in total contract value that also includes two first round draft picks.

Let's save the Barry Sanders talk until after any decisions have been made, just like any proposal including Barry Sanders was saved until after a deal had already been agreed to kthx.

do you even know what your argument is anymore

It's always been the same -- that you shouldn't GM my team.

[eric]

Apr 23, 2018 16:45:54 GMT TimPig said:

Apr 23, 2018 16:37:07 GMT eric said:

do you even know what your argument is anymore

It's always been the same -- that you shouldn't GM my team.

we all give up some sovereignty in exchange for being members of a group
i can't drill a hole under my seat because it's our lifeboat
and i can't make a terrible trade with my team because it's our league

in this case we as a league vested one person with absolute discretion over whether a trade was terrible
it was the right call
and it wasn't me

[Deleted]

when do polls close

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 17:03:22 GMT eric said:

Apr 23, 2018 16:45:54 GMT TimPig said:

It's always been the same -- that you shouldn't GM my team.

we all give up some sovereignty in exchange for being members of a group
i can't drill a hole under my seat because it's our lifeboat
and i can't make a terrible trade with my team because it's our league

in this case we as a league vested one person with absolute discretion over whether a trade was terrible
it was the right call
and it wasn't me

Calls trading an aging point guard with one of the largest contracts in the league on a team who wants to tank for a good prospect and two first round picks a "terrible trade".

Offered this heap of trash for Kris Dunn:

Jerry Lucas
Johan Petro
Kelan Martin
Tayshaun Prince
Knicks 3057 2nd
Knicks 3058 1st, 2nd
2001 dump bucks

Keep telling us about what's fair and what's not though, eric.

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 19:01:59 GMT @billykinggm said:

when do polls close

Once everyone votes for eric to quit.

[eric]

Apr 23, 2018 19:13:21 GMT TimPig said:

Apr 23, 2018 17:03:22 GMT eric said:

we all give up some sovereignty in exchange for being members of a group
i can't drill a hole under my seat because it's our lifeboat
and i can't make a terrible trade with my team because it's our league

in this case we as a league vested one person with absolute discretion over whether a trade was terrible
it was the right call
and it wasn't me

Calls trading an aging point guard with one of the largest contracts in the league on a team who wants to tank for a good prospect and two first round picks a "terrible trade".

Offered this heap of trash for Kris Dunn:

Jerry Lucas
Johan Petro
Kelan Martin
Tayshaun Prince
Knicks 3057 2nd
Knicks 3058 1st, 2nd
2001 dump bucks

Keep telling us about what's fair and what's not though, eric.

kris dunn is a lot closer to budda baker than lonzo ball, and was on an expiring deal when i made that offer

getting pretty bored of the 'pretend tim honestly can't tell the difference' game

[TimPig]

Apr 23, 2018 20:53:22 GMT eric said:

Apr 23, 2018 19:13:21 GMT TimPig said:

Calls trading an aging point guard with one of the largest contracts in the league on a team who wants to tank for a good prospect and two first round picks a "terrible trade".

Offered this heap of trash for Kris Dunn:

Jerry Lucas
Johan Petro
Kelan Martin
Tayshaun Prince
Knicks 3057 2nd
Knicks 3058 1st, 2nd
2001 dump bucks

Keep telling us about what's fair and what's not though, eric.

kris dunn is a lot closer to budda baker than lonzo ball, and was on an expiring deal when i made that offer

getting pretty bored of the 'pretend tim honestly can't tell the difference' game

Jesus Christ. You offered me four terrible players, a first round pick that, with Kris Dunn on your roster, would've immediately pushed it outside of the lottery, and enough dump bucks for 57% of a reward camp.

I can obviously tell the difference between Lonzo Ball and Kris Dunn, even though 20s suggested in Shout that I should start Dunn over Ball at point guard when I first acquired Dunn.

I can also tell the difference in return between a potential starting point guard and two first-round picks and four players that most people didn't even want on their roster, one first, two worthless seconds, and a negligible amount of dump bucks.

Kelan Martin shot 43% during his career. Trash.
Jerry Lucas shot 41% and averaged 2 blocks per game during his career. Trash.
Tayshaun Prince shot 43% and averaged less than 5 rebounds per game during his career. Trash.
I can't find Johan Petro's stats but he was trash too.

In your trade, the only remotely valuable piece I was getting was a late first round pick for an all-star point guard who played the most valuable position in the software for 2 championship teams, and was shooting guard on a third. In the vetoed Lonzo Ball trade, I was at least getting three pieces with potential.

Budda Baker was better than all four of those players in his one year of starting. And if you want to talk about how an expiring contract diminishes the value of a player, please keep bringing up Barry Sanders.

[Deleted]

i am quite the gm

[fason]

Glad we could get Heebs and Eric fighting on the same side again. Fences mended, well done everybody.