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Post by jhb on Jun 9, 2020 14:09:28 GMT
Juwan Howard
Orlando Magic (2023-2026)
Miami Heat (2027-2031)
Dallas Mavericks (2028)
Harlem Globetrotters (2032-2037)
Atlanta Hawks (2038)
At a Glance - One of the greatest defensive and rebounding bigs and feared shot-blockers of all-time who played an integral role on some underachieving Miami Heat squads and in the tenacious defense of the Globetrotters mid-2030s dynasty that won two titles - Joined Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as one of the only three players in TMBSL history to win Defensive Player of the Year more than twice, coming in just short of tying Kareem for second place with his five DPOY awards - 9-time member of the All-Defensive First Team and a 3-time All-Star - Finished with over 90 career win shares, which is a pretty respectable total for an all-defense player (good for .122 WS/48 for his career) - Finished 5th all-time in career blocks, just 5 short of joining Simi Shittu, Zion, Stromile Swift, and Bill Russell in the 3000 block club - Finished 22nd all-time in career rebounds with 12,175 - Recorded 2 of the 3 best all-time seasons for blocks with 339 and 326 in 2033 and 2035; he holds 4 of the top 36 seasons in blocks overall Career Stats Years played: 16 Games played: 1180 Points per game: 7.8 Rebounds per game: 10.3 Assists per game: 1.8 Steals per game: 0.8 Blocks per game: 2.5 Turnovers per game: 1.4FG%: .459 FT%: .599 3P%: .000 (3 attempts)  Career Highs
Points: 28 Rebounds: 25 Assists: 9 Steals: 6 Blocks: 11 259 double-doubles 3 triple-doubles Achievements/Awards
Champion (x2) Defensive Player of the Year (5x) All-Star (x3) All-Defensive First Team (x9) Player of the Game (35x) All-Rookie Second Team 2023 - All-Rookie Second Team 2024 - All-Star Game Participant 2025 - All-Star Game Participant 2026 - All-Star Game Participant 2029 - All-Defensive Team 2030 - All-Defensive Team 2031 - All-Defensive Team 2032 - All-Defensive Team 2033 - Defensive Player of the Year 2033 - All-Defensive Team 2034 - Defensive Player of the Year 2034 - All-Defensive Team 2035 - Defensive Player of the Year 2035 - All-Defensive Team 2036 - Defensive Player of the Year 2036 - All-Defensive Team 2037 - Defensive Player of the Year 2037 - All-Defensive Team Biography Height: 6'10" Weight: 244 College: Michigan Transactions
- Selected with the 9th overall pick of the first round of the 2023 TMBSL draft by the Orlando Magic and was demoted to their affiliate Denver Nuggets - At the end of his rookie contract he offered to resign in Orlando for $70,515,323 over 6 years and was declined by the Magic - Signed in-season with the Miami Heat after initially going unsigned in Free Agency in 2027 - Signed in post-TC signings to an LLE by the Mavericks in 2028 and was traded back to Miami for two second round picks and Chris Richard; his LLE was then extended for two seasons by the Heat - Following the expiration of his extended MLE, Howard offered to resign in Miami for $93,750,000 over 6 years; they ultimately agreed to a $5,000,000 deal for one season - Howard offered the same resign the following offseason and was yet again rebuffed and signed with the Globetrotters for $13,000,000 for one season - He resigned again with Harlem the next offseason (2033) for $13,500,000 and then $16,200,000, $17,500,000, and $18,000,000 the seasons after - He offered a resignings of $12,250,000 and $12,600,000 in 2037 and 2038, which were accepted by Harlem - He was traded to Atlanta for their 2043 1st round pick before the 2038 season and retired following one season in Atlanta |
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Post by skrouse on Jun 9, 2020 14:31:11 GMT
Best late bloomer ever?
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Post by killybing on Jun 9, 2020 14:50:52 GMT
Seems like an edge case not sure he's a HOFer
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Post by skrouse on Jun 9, 2020 14:59:43 GMT
Seems like an edge case not sure he's a HOFer Was close for me, but 5 DPOY awards is enough to put him over the line I think |
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Post by killybing on Jun 9, 2020 15:07:01 GMT
Seems like an edge case not sure he's a HOFer Was close for me, but 5 DPOY awards is enough to put him over the line I think Im not a big fan of caring about software awards. Someone like zo produces the same amount as juwan but is 1% worse each season do he doesn't get the award and is obviously not HOF |
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Post by jhb on Jun 9, 2020 15:35:29 GMT
Was close for me, but 5 DPOY awards is enough to put him over the line I think Im not a big fan of caring about software awards. Someone like zo produces the same amount as juwan but is 1% worse each season do he doesn't get the award and is obviously not HOF Zo really never did though until the last couple of seasons and his rebounding isn't nearly as good which is why he hasn't consistently been a starter despite that elite skill He also never did it on title teams |
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Post by TimPig on Jun 9, 2020 16:15:49 GMT
Yeah pretty cut and dry IMO. He was a staple on the Globes contending teams and a key part of a couple of their titles.
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Post by killybing on Jun 9, 2020 16:40:43 GMT
Yeah pretty cut and dry IMO. He was a staple on the Globes contending teams and a key part of a couple of their titles. Do you remember the time I tried to trade you juwan Howard and you said he sucked and ward got him instead |
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Post by TimPig on Jun 9, 2020 16:48:23 GMT
Yeah pretty cut and dry IMO. He was a staple on the Globes contending teams and a key part of a couple of their titles. Do you remember the time I tried to trade you juwan Howard and you said he sucked and ward got him instead Remember that time you lied and mischaracterized what I said (again)?  |
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Post by jhb on Jun 9, 2020 16:55:03 GMT
Oooooo, receipts
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Post by killybing on Jun 9, 2020 16:56:26 GMT
Do you remember the time I tried to trade you juwan Howard and you said he sucked and ward got him instead Remember that time you lied and mischaracterized what I said (again)? I mean I obviously don't have the receipts and am relying on memory I just remembered you saying you weren't interested in him. It might've been during a different negotiation. Not meaning to mischaracterize. |
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Post by TimPig on Jun 9, 2020 16:58:28 GMT
Remember that time you lied and mischaracterized what I said (again)? I mean I obviously don't have the receipts and am relying on memory I just remembered you saying you weren't interested in him. It might've been during a different negotiation. Not meaning to mischaracterize. I mean I literally asked you to sign him to trade to me. |
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Post by killybing on Jun 9, 2020 17:00:49 GMT
I mean I obviously don't have the receipts and am relying on memory I just remembered you saying you weren't interested in him. It might've been during a different negotiation. Not meaning to mischaracterize. I mean I literally asked you to sign him to trade to me. Do you have the rest of the receipts? Why did he not end up being included? |
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Post by TimPig on Jun 9, 2020 17:05:10 GMT
I mean I literally asked you to sign him to trade to me. Do you have the rest of the receipts? Why did he not end up being included? Because he accepted another offer. And then you tried to include Yinka as an alternative but pulled back on that.  |
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Post by killybing on Jun 9, 2020 17:07:10 GMT
My memory is quite poor; I apologize unconditionally
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Deleted
Posts: 0
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Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2020 15:42:22 GMT
yes as a heat due to our fantastic staff identifying his skills
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Post by Muzunga on Jun 10, 2020 16:50:13 GMT
NO
This the the hall of fame. Not the hall of very good.
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Post by jhb on Jun 10, 2020 17:14:59 GMT
A coalition of Fecta and BK has there ever been a more hilarious band of idiots
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Post by jhb on Jun 11, 2020 16:05:31 GMT
Juwan Howard not getting in but Jerry Lucas getting in would be a travesty.
Both were somewhat one dimensional but they were both all-time greats at their one skill and both helped keep their teams elite in their prime. Lucas just gets in because scoring is sexy while Howard doesn't even though his elite defense was a big part of the Globes winning two titles and playing in a couple more Finals.
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Post by skrouse on Jun 11, 2020 16:17:03 GMT
Juwan Howard not getting in but Jerry Lucas getting in would be a travesty. Both were somewhat one dimensional but they were both all-time greats at their one skill and both helped keep their teams elite in their prime. Lucas just gets in because scoring is sexy while Howard doesn't even though his elite defense was a big part of the Globes winning two titles and playing in a couple more Finals. I don't disagree. I think another way to view this is that for the entirety of their careers Lucas would have demanded more in terms of trade value than Howard. Just my opinion but that's my recollection. Maybe the last year or 2 it was close or even changed, but Lucas > Howard for most of it.
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Post by killybing on Jun 11, 2020 16:31:55 GMT
Juwan Howard not getting in but Jerry Lucas getting in would be a travesty. Both were somewhat one dimensional but they were both all-time greats at their one skill and both helped keep their teams elite in their prime. Lucas just gets in because scoring is sexy while Howard doesn't even though his elite defense was a big part of the Globes winning two titles and playing in a couple more Finals.
howard was meh af for half his career
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Post by TimPig on Jun 11, 2020 16:39:55 GMT
Howard is like the second or third best defender we've had in almost 40 seasons.
I don't get how this is up for debate.
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Post by jhb on Jun 11, 2020 16:56:55 GMT
Juwan Howard not getting in but Jerry Lucas getting in would be a travesty. Both were somewhat one dimensional but they were both all-time greats at their one skill and both helped keep their teams elite in their prime. Lucas just gets in because scoring is sexy while Howard doesn't even though his elite defense was a big part of the Globes winning two titles and playing in a couple more Finals. I don't disagree. I think another way to view this is that for the entirety of their careers Lucas would have demanded more in terms of trade value than Howard. Just my opinion but that's my recollection. Maybe the last year or 2 it was close or even changed, but Lucas > Howard for most of it.
Maybe that says more about the GMs in our league than Howard Or that quantifying scoring is just easier than quantifying defensive impact |
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Post by skrouse on Jun 11, 2020 16:58:42 GMT
Or that quantifying scoring is just easier than quantifying defensive impact This is true based on the data we have. We can't calculate things like altered shots or turnovers forced that aren't steals, etc. |
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Post by jhb on Jun 11, 2020 17:01:21 GMT
Or that quantifying scoring is just easier than quantifying defensive impact This is true based on the data we have. We can't calculate things like altered shots or turnovers forced that aren't steals, etc. Yes but knowing what we do know he was one of the greatest to ever do it from the end of his rookie contract until the end of his career. That should be in the HOF...especially if guys like Donta Hall are in. Howard did everything he did but also rebounded better. |
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Post by 👨🏼⚕️delapandemic🚑 on Jun 11, 2020 17:08:06 GMT
super easy yes, I don't know why this is a debate
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Post by skrouse on Jun 11, 2020 17:13:39 GMT
The 1st 6 years of his career he was not very good. The last 2 years were good, not great. The 8 in the middle are borderline HOF, so I think the debate is justified.
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Post by TimPig on Jun 11, 2020 17:17:40 GMT
The 1st 6 years of his career he was not very good. The last 2 years were good, not great. The 8 in the middle are borderline HOF, so I think the debate is justified. He blocked 3.4 and 3.5 shots per 36 respectively his final two years. Still exceptional, he just didn't get the same PT. And it was in year 6 where it appears he really exploded, blocking 2.7 per 36. So in my mind, that says that in 10 of 16 seasons, he was excellent. |
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Post by jhb on Jun 11, 2020 17:28:09 GMT
He wasn't borderline HOF in his prime, he was near GOAT (aside from Bill Russell) on defense status
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