Post by TimPig on Apr 28, 2020 19:32:40 GMT
Rules:
- A player can only be on one Mt. Rushmore
- Player can be active or retired
- Order is intentional - most “influential” is first
- Don’t necessarily have to be the four “best” players (though it usually is) - it could be players you most associate with the franchise
- By GM, not franchise (i.e. MJ’s Spurs players are not included on Pointyegg’s Rushmore)
Atlanta Hawks
Tim: Stephen Jackson, Jonas Valanciunas, Olden Polynice, God Shammgod
Delap: Stephen Jackson, Olden Polynice, God Shammgod, Jonas Valanciunas
Players Considered: Benji Hammon, Shaquille O’Neal, James Worthy, Bradley Beal, Jerry Lucas, Larry Johnson, Joel Embiid
Tim’s Reasoning: The Hawks have one three titles - back to back to back - and these four were on all three. They’ve had plenty of good seasons, but people remember championships. People forget that. I put Embiid, Beal, and maybe Lucas ahead of Hammon because she only played for six seasons, never won a title, wasn’t a good defender or rebounder, and turned it over way too often. Really great scorer though. I debated putting Jonas first, so I’m surprised Delap has him fourth. I see Jonas as a great all-around big with no holes in his game, while God was a safe-but-unspectacular point guard.
Delap’s Reasoning: We obviously agreed on the 4 Gold Club members, just varied in order after Captain Jack. I think Benji Hammon is the only of the other considerations that even pushed for a spot, but the lack of titles really hurt him/her (and he/she played on the contracted Hawks, not the expanded Hawks). Embiid is certainly on-track to knock off Valanciunas, assuming he stays in town and wins some more rings.
Charlotte Hornets
Tim: Yao Ming, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Vince Carter, Shareef O’Neal
Delap: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Yao Ming, Vince Carter, Shareef O’Neal
Players Considered: Steve Nash, Stacey Augmon, Seventh Woods
Tim’s Reasoning: I thought I was clever including Shareef on the Hornets’ Mt. Rushmore, but I guess not. I think Yao is easily ahead of Giannis on their all-time list, however. Yao has the second best pts/tsa of all time - behind only Kareem - and would be much higher on a lot of career rankings had Fecta not ignored setting a depth chart for multiple seasons. Nash and Augmon got no consideration from me. Seventh Woods did though.
Delap’s Reasoning: Another franchise with an easy 4, And we almost agreed on the order! Nash and Augmon were briefly considered, but it wasn’t particularly close. It’s crazy how a franchise can go 20 seasons without even coming close to having another “franchise” player. Weird.
Detroit Pistons
Tim: Bill Russell, Shawn Kemp, Michael Jordan, Zan Tabak
Delap: Bill Russell, Shawn Kemp, Rick Fox, Michael Jordan
Players Considered: Shamorie Ponds, Chris Webber, Julius Erving
Tim’s Reasoning: I gave Fox a lot of consideration in my list, but since he was nabbed by Detroit in contraction, I still associate him with the Hawks more and Lakers about equally. Longevity certainly scores him some points, but I think my memory of him is also clouded by hanging on three or four seasons too long. Bill Russell was an easy number one and deserved better. Kemp’s game at least had the flaw of turnovers. Bill was perfect for years. Erving will definitely be top three - maybe top two - by the end of his career since we know Mike won’t ever move him. I have Tabak probably higher on this list than I should, but I remember chatting with Mike where we debated whether he should take Tabak or Dele, who seemed like 1.1 at one point, and he ended up going with Tabak.
Delap’s Reasoning: A difference of opinion! I think Detroit had an easy Top 5, but I put Fox over Tabak because his peaks were certainly higher, and they both had the longevity with the franchise to qualify. Detroit has a sneaky good group… shame that they didn’t get the help they needed mid-prime to win a title.
Harlem Globetrotters
Tim: Dolph Schayes, Zach Randolph, Magic Johnson, Elvis Delle Donne
Delap: Zach Randolph, John Wall, Magic Johnson, Dolph Schayes
Players Considered: Vlade Divac, Nerlens Noel, Stacey Augmon, Shamorie Ponds, Trendon Watford, Cazzie Russell, Jock Landale
Tim’s Reasoning: When we think of the Globetrotters, do we really think of John Wall as being one of the reasons they won a title? I hardly associate Wall with Harlem at all, honestly. And Dolph Schayes is an easy number one. He was their first Creation Draft pick, and that was after the Globes swapped 1.1 to move back a bit so Ian could take Sexton. He’s in the Hall of Fame, led them to championships in a deeper league, and has that “aura” around his name. When I think Harlem, I think Dolph and vice versa. Either way, Magic’s at the top of this list when it’s all said and done.
Delap’s Reasoning: Phew… easily the franchise with the most truly considered players for me. The Randolph/Wall combination led them to a 3-peat, so I can’t see anyone topping them on the list. Magic is probably the best non-LeBron player in the league right now and will surely bank another title. Schayes is one of the best early TMBSLers. Delle Donne is fantastic, but I had him/her in the next tier with Divac, Watford, Noel, and Augmon.
Miami Heat
Tim: Zion Williamson, Nick Van Exel, Rodney Rogers, Damian Lillard
Delap: Zion Williamson, Nick Van Exel, Rodney Rogers, Tim Duncan
Players Considered: Kenny Smith, Purvis Short
Tim’s Reasoning: Another time I really thought I was coming in from the top rope with my Rodney Rogers pick, but I’m thwarted by my archnemesis yet again. It’s tough to pick a Mt. Rushmore for a team that rarely commits to a player for more than 2-3 seasons at a time. This is the same franchise that has amnestied Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, DeMarcus Cousins, and Nick Van Exel in the same offseason, which kind of makes me want to leave NVE off the list, but they at least brought him back later on. Zion was a prolific scorer and defender whose win shares were always capped because of his turnovers, and honestly I’m not sure he should even be on this list since Canes drafted him, but I don’t remember the history of the Heat that well. Duncan may have been the correct choice over Lillard in hindsight, but I’m not going to go back and change now. I remember Duncan more for getting screwed by getting drafted by the Blackhawks.
Delap’s Reasoning: Duncan over Lillard seemed easy to me, he’s in the HOF as a Heatle and there he shall remain. Duncan probably (definitely) would’ve been on the all-time BK team, but we are doing franchises and he gets to be with Odin instead. Odin’s penchant for free-wheeling trading and lack of loyalty (the anti-Mike, if you will) means that very few players get the career necessary in South Beach to have their faces molded in their sand castle Mt. Rushmore.
Orlando Magic
Tim: Tracy McGrady, Mike Conley, Wilt Chamberlain, Brandon Griner
Delap: Tracy McGrady, Wilt Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Players Considered: Nick King, Jerry West, Terry Cummings
Tim’s Reasoning: McGrady is the obvious number one, and I elected to leave Kareem off because I’ll always remember him for the franchise that drafted him (RIP SPL). I have this weird thing where I don’t think Wilt was *that* good. My logic may be flawed, but he never played much defense and I'm not sure what his scoring ceiling was. Great rebounder though. Also, Wilt only played 11 seasons, albeit all of them with the Magic. Conley played 10 with Orlando, two more with Tri-Cities, and probably has another 3-4 good seasons (at a minimum) left in him. I also respect that Conley was passed on by six other teams in the draft, whereas Chamberlain went 1.1. Griner was a fun one to think way back on and a key cog in those successful early Magic teams. I have no idea how Bellamy made Delap’s list.
Delap’s Reasoning: When I think of Orlando, no offense Mike Conley, I think of McGrady and power bigs… so their Rushmore reflects that. Kareem’s best days may have been in LA, but he was beloved in the Magic Kingdom.
Washington Bullets
Tim: Simisola Shittu, Greg Monroe, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade
Delap: Dwight Howard, Greg Monroe, Simisola Shittu, Shabazz Muhammad
Players Considered: Peyton Gragg
Tim’s Reasoning: It pained me to put Shittu on this list as he should be in the Hall as a Bull, but we love him in Chicago so he had to be #1. He edges fellow HOFer Monroe as he led the league in career win shares for a short time. It’s hard to remember, but Kn even invested some upgrade points into Simi and Monroe over 20 sim seasons ago, so they were clearly special in the minds of the Washington faithful. There’s a lot of “what could have been” coming out of Washington, and the three great bigs at the top of this list highlight that. Fourth is a tough one, but I’m not sure it really matters. I know Delap hates IRL and sim Wade, so I wanted to see him get mad about my choice but he’s too even-keeled for that I guess. I think Wade could be a HOF shooting guard with his 22/7 per-36 career stat line and 1.15 pts/tsa.
Delap’s Reasoning: Not sure the order on the 1st 3 matter, but I think of Simi in his winning days on other teams first… so Dwight slots into #1 for them in my mind. I have Shabazz narrowly ahead of Wade, but if Wade puts up another year or two of decent contributions he’ll have that spot in my mind.
Chicago Bulls
Tim: LeBron James, Oscar Robertson, Dave Lattin, Dominique Wilkins
Delap: LeBron James, Oscar Robertson, Dave Lattin, Miles Bridges
Players Considered: Simisola Shittu
Tim’s Reasoning: A number of players could’ve seen their careers flourish in Chicago, but a couple of big-named dickheads leaving the Windy City (Antawn Jamison, Willis Reed) caused massive sell-offs that shortened the careers of many Chicagoans. I disagree on Bridges being a no-brainer. I hate to say it, but he’s still almost 50/50 Bulls and Raptors, but I think my memory is thrown off a bit because of all the shuffling that happened post-contraction. Dominique’s career scoring numbers will always be less than they could have been due to playing alongside LeBron, Oscar, Jabari, and soon to be Butch Lee, but if he was a one-man show or even the top dog, he could average 30 in his prime. I don’t think it’s fair to hold his teammates against him.
Delap’s Reasoning: This was surprisingly one of the easiest ones for me and I only really considered the 5 guys listed in our collective Top 4s. Bridges over ‘Nique seems like a no-brainer. ‘Nique has more titles, but that is because of #s 1 and 2 on the list. Bridges was a scoring machine and really shined in Chicago.
Dallas Mavericks
Tim: Kyrie Irving, Cam Reddish, Marcus Taylor, Al Harrington
Delap: Kyrie Irving, Cam Reddish, Al Harrington, Marcus Taylor
Players Considered: Neon Boudeaux, Killian Tillie, Larry Bird
Tim’s Reasoning: Duh on the first two. Absolutely no contest, though I think Larry Bird could end up at #2 assuming that Delap doesn’t pull a Kevin Durant with him. Reddish never won a title, and Bird has some 15 seasons or so to accomplish what Cam never did. They seem like pretty similar players otherwise. Harrington won a title, but he was 34 and picked up by Kyrie and Boogie Cousins that season. Marcus Taylor’s career numbers don’t look great, but they were made less impressive by him playing about seven years longer than he should have. I honestly forgot Boudeaux was even a Maverick. He’ll always be an MJ Spur to me.
Delap’s Reasoning: #s 1 and 2 are no brainers, as clearly the best players in franchise history. Harrington meant more to the franchise than Taylor did, due to longevity and being a part of the only Mavs title team in 2019. Marcus Taylor edges out Boudeaux because of longevity and +5 in the TC.
Portland Trail Blazers
Tim: Caron Butler, Malcolm Moore, AJ Guyton, David Robinson
Delap: Caron Butler, David Robinson, AJ Guyton, Isaac Bonga
Players Considered: Jake Tsakalidis, Grant Hill, Bill Cartwright, Elgin Baylor, Amare Stoudemire
Tim’s Reasoning: I can’t believe Delap left Moore off as she was close to being put above Butler for me. Moore was elite for about six years, and had she come into the league at 21 or 22 instead of 25, she’s probably at or near the top in career steals, which is also where Butler shined. Moore, like Butler, was also an elite rebounder from the wing position. Plus, one of the hallmark’s of Majic’s tenure as GM of the Blazers is collusion with Druce, and guess where he eventually traded Moore? By quality, Robinson is 100x better as a player than Guyton ever was, but Guyton won an MVP (lol) and is someone Majic has always petitioned for as a player, whereas The Admiral wasn’t even beloved enough to have a HOF profile written for him.
Delap’s Reasoning: The last spot for me was a crapshoot between Hill, Moore, and Bonga. I settled on Bonga because I think he had the highest peak and had a longer stint with the team than Moore. Guyton remains the worst player in the HOF, but he absolutely deserves a spot here. Caron Butler is Mr. Blazer, despite having a somewhat under-the-radar, low-key career.
Tri-Cities Blackhawks
Tim: Adrian Dantley, Josh Howard, Allen Iverson, Darko Milicic
Delap: Adrian Dantley, Josh Howard, Allen Iverson, Darko Milicic
Players Considered: Greg Oden, Jason Kidd
Tim’s Reasoning: Lol at this hodge podge of trash. Dantley is the exception as a good player most teams would want. Josh Howard makes a decent backup wing for some teams. Iverson is a point guard who won’t destroy your team. Milicic is a power forward who has a 50/50 chance of having a good season in an outside-focused offense. As for players who could’ve been something in Tri-Cities, let’s not forget David Robinson. He and Duncan on rookie contracts probably could’ve teamed up to bring BK his first title.
Delap’s Reasoning: Hey! Total agreement! Constant roster churn and sporadic mid-5.0 GMing made this Rushmore pretty crappy. Could’ve been Duncan, Gragg, Bison Dele, Earl Monroe… but alas…
Vancouver Grizzlies
Tim: Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, Tyler Ennis, Brad Holland
Delap: Kevin Durant, Tyler Ennis, Anthony Davis, Terry Cummings
Players Considered: Christian Laettner
Tim’s Reasoning: Perhaps Delap and I have a fundamental disagreement on why someone belongs on Mt. Rushmore. Durant is obvious as the best player the team has had since Druce returned. Anthony Davis is second on this list for me because the trade for he and KD fundamentally influenced how this team was going to be built. I also think Ennis is overrated, but he is the only Vancouver expansion pick still standing and has had a good amount invested into him. Cummings is a better player than Holland (and Ennis and AD) but he hasn’t been in Vancouver long enough for me to put him up there. I think of Holland as a guy that Vancouver took a big risk on that not many others were willing to and someone that will be a Grizz for a long time.
Delap’s Reasoning: I remain firmly on team Holland isn’t that great and Ennis is overrated, but Ennis is clearly their 2nd best player since the return. Davis is on the mountain, but the Vancouverites surely have bad feelings about it given his playoff performances.
San Antonio Spurs
Tim: Nikola Jokic, Adam Morrison, Sleepy Floyd, Tiny Archibald
Delap: Darren Tillis, Tiny Archibald, Jerry Lucas, Adam Morrison
Players Considered: Mychal Thompson
Tim’s Reasoning: How is Jokic not number one? His signing to the MLE was brilliant for Pointyegg. He just finished third in win shares for centers, accumulating nearly a third of his team’s total. He’s only been there one year, but the team hasn’t existed long so I’m throwing longevity out here. He is a building block for them and you love to see a new GM finding a diamond in the rough. Nabbing Jokic on the MLE was a veteran GM type of move. I think Morrison has a shot to be a good but not great small forward and maybe the third or fourth best player on a good team. After those two, there isn’t much. Thompson does a couple of things well but the holes in his inside and jumper are too much and only one can be fixed via upgrades.
Delap’s Reasoning: Darren Tillis is the GOAT in San Antonio… and that is sad. Adam Morrison should ascend to the top of this hill, even with average development, by the end of his rookie deal. Jerry Lucas absolutely deserves to be on Rushmore somewhere, but couldn’t quite knock off anyone in Miami, Dallas, or Atlanta to be there. San Antone is as good of a spot as any for him I suppose.
Oakland Oaks
Tim: Sam Jones, Marcus Camby, Shawnelle Scott, Dan Majerle
Delap: Sam Jones, Shawnelle Scott, Marcus Camby, Guy Rodgers
Players Considered: Otis Birdsong, Harold Miner, John Havlicek
Tim’s Reasoning: Sam Jones is the obvious first, but Austin Carr could slide his way up these rankings if Kujo keeps setting DCs. Camby, like Jokic for San Antonio, was a really nice find for Kujo as a guy lots of GMs had given up on. Majerle could’ve been higher on this list but he was moved to Orlando arguably too quickly, but he also didn’t improve much outside of his +25 inside, which is unfortunate because his rebounding was so promising. The Oaks have 1.1 next season, so maybe Kevin Garnett will find his way up the list?
Delap’s Reasoning: Easy 3, hard to find a 4th. I don’t have much to say about it.
New York Knicks
Tim: Firsto Picko, Jock Landale, Stan Haynes, Quincy McCall
Delap: Firsto Picko, Jock Landale, Stan Haynes, Quincy McCall
Players Considered: George Mikan, Jesse Epstein, Whitey Von Nieda
Tim’s Reasoning: Crazy to think about the quantity of great bigs this team had in their short existence. Had Firsto not been lost in The Great Contraction, he’s probably got another 30-40 win shares at least, moving him closer to the top of the career leaderboard. People forget about Jock because he was always second fiddle, but it’s crazy to think about how efficient of a scorer he was at 1.2 pts/tsa for his career. Haynes is the even more forgotten version of Jock and had he not entered the league on the wrong side of 30 he’d be remembered as one of the more efficient big men in league history. Quincy was the pioneer of the inside-focused offense in my opinion and was a great example of how 5.0 was going to be different from 4.0 from the outset. The man shot 28 threes in eight seasons but was still a member of two titles teams, proving that 1) it’s not going to be all about point guards and 2) even the little guys could get inside buckets.
Delap’s Reasoning: Like the Magic, I think of the Knicks and I think of their bigs. True to 4.0 form, eric started 5.0 and didn’t care who his guards and wings were, stockpiling bigs on bigs on bigs and having a fantastic hit rate. All he did was hit HOFers and put together an amazing run in just over a decade. Firsto was the original GOAT of 5.0 and Jock was his right-hand mate (that’s Australian for ‘man’). Whitey was easily the best wing he had, but just wasn’t good enough to crack Rushmore. McCall was almost a forgotten man on those teams, but the ownership group certainly loved Q.
- A player can only be on one Mt. Rushmore
- Player can be active or retired
- Order is intentional - most “influential” is first
- Don’t necessarily have to be the four “best” players (though it usually is) - it could be players you most associate with the franchise
- By GM, not franchise (i.e. MJ’s Spurs players are not included on Pointyegg’s Rushmore)
Atlanta Hawks Tim: Stephen Jackson, Jonas Valanciunas, Olden Polynice, God Shammgod
Delap: Stephen Jackson, Olden Polynice, God Shammgod, Jonas Valanciunas
Players Considered: Benji Hammon, Shaquille O’Neal, James Worthy, Bradley Beal, Jerry Lucas, Larry Johnson, Joel Embiid
Tim’s Reasoning: The Hawks have one three titles - back to back to back - and these four were on all three. They’ve had plenty of good seasons, but people remember championships. People forget that. I put Embiid, Beal, and maybe Lucas ahead of Hammon because she only played for six seasons, never won a title, wasn’t a good defender or rebounder, and turned it over way too often. Really great scorer though. I debated putting Jonas first, so I’m surprised Delap has him fourth. I see Jonas as a great all-around big with no holes in his game, while God was a safe-but-unspectacular point guard.
Delap’s Reasoning: We obviously agreed on the 4 Gold Club members, just varied in order after Captain Jack. I think Benji Hammon is the only of the other considerations that even pushed for a spot, but the lack of titles really hurt him/her (and he/she played on the contracted Hawks, not the expanded Hawks). Embiid is certainly on-track to knock off Valanciunas, assuming he stays in town and wins some more rings.
Charlotte HornetsTim: Yao Ming, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Vince Carter, Shareef O’Neal
Delap: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Yao Ming, Vince Carter, Shareef O’Neal
Players Considered: Steve Nash, Stacey Augmon, Seventh Woods
Tim’s Reasoning: I thought I was clever including Shareef on the Hornets’ Mt. Rushmore, but I guess not. I think Yao is easily ahead of Giannis on their all-time list, however. Yao has the second best pts/tsa of all time - behind only Kareem - and would be much higher on a lot of career rankings had Fecta not ignored setting a depth chart for multiple seasons. Nash and Augmon got no consideration from me. Seventh Woods did though.
Delap’s Reasoning: Another franchise with an easy 4, And we almost agreed on the order! Nash and Augmon were briefly considered, but it wasn’t particularly close. It’s crazy how a franchise can go 20 seasons without even coming close to having another “franchise” player. Weird.
Detroit PistonsTim: Bill Russell, Shawn Kemp, Michael Jordan, Zan Tabak
Delap: Bill Russell, Shawn Kemp, Rick Fox, Michael Jordan
Players Considered: Shamorie Ponds, Chris Webber, Julius Erving
Tim’s Reasoning: I gave Fox a lot of consideration in my list, but since he was nabbed by Detroit in contraction, I still associate him with the Hawks more and Lakers about equally. Longevity certainly scores him some points, but I think my memory of him is also clouded by hanging on three or four seasons too long. Bill Russell was an easy number one and deserved better. Kemp’s game at least had the flaw of turnovers. Bill was perfect for years. Erving will definitely be top three - maybe top two - by the end of his career since we know Mike won’t ever move him. I have Tabak probably higher on this list than I should, but I remember chatting with Mike where we debated whether he should take Tabak or Dele, who seemed like 1.1 at one point, and he ended up going with Tabak.
Delap’s Reasoning: A difference of opinion! I think Detroit had an easy Top 5, but I put Fox over Tabak because his peaks were certainly higher, and they both had the longevity with the franchise to qualify. Detroit has a sneaky good group… shame that they didn’t get the help they needed mid-prime to win a title.
Harlem GlobetrottersTim: Dolph Schayes, Zach Randolph, Magic Johnson, Elvis Delle Donne
Delap: Zach Randolph, John Wall, Magic Johnson, Dolph Schayes
Players Considered: Vlade Divac, Nerlens Noel, Stacey Augmon, Shamorie Ponds, Trendon Watford, Cazzie Russell, Jock Landale
Tim’s Reasoning: When we think of the Globetrotters, do we really think of John Wall as being one of the reasons they won a title? I hardly associate Wall with Harlem at all, honestly. And Dolph Schayes is an easy number one. He was their first Creation Draft pick, and that was after the Globes swapped 1.1 to move back a bit so Ian could take Sexton. He’s in the Hall of Fame, led them to championships in a deeper league, and has that “aura” around his name. When I think Harlem, I think Dolph and vice versa. Either way, Magic’s at the top of this list when it’s all said and done.
Delap’s Reasoning: Phew… easily the franchise with the most truly considered players for me. The Randolph/Wall combination led them to a 3-peat, so I can’t see anyone topping them on the list. Magic is probably the best non-LeBron player in the league right now and will surely bank another title. Schayes is one of the best early TMBSLers. Delle Donne is fantastic, but I had him/her in the next tier with Divac, Watford, Noel, and Augmon.
Miami HeatTim: Zion Williamson, Nick Van Exel, Rodney Rogers, Damian Lillard
Delap: Zion Williamson, Nick Van Exel, Rodney Rogers, Tim Duncan
Players Considered: Kenny Smith, Purvis Short
Tim’s Reasoning: Another time I really thought I was coming in from the top rope with my Rodney Rogers pick, but I’m thwarted by my archnemesis yet again. It’s tough to pick a Mt. Rushmore for a team that rarely commits to a player for more than 2-3 seasons at a time. This is the same franchise that has amnestied Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, DeMarcus Cousins, and Nick Van Exel in the same offseason, which kind of makes me want to leave NVE off the list, but they at least brought him back later on. Zion was a prolific scorer and defender whose win shares were always capped because of his turnovers, and honestly I’m not sure he should even be on this list since Canes drafted him, but I don’t remember the history of the Heat that well. Duncan may have been the correct choice over Lillard in hindsight, but I’m not going to go back and change now. I remember Duncan more for getting screwed by getting drafted by the Blackhawks.
Delap’s Reasoning: Duncan over Lillard seemed easy to me, he’s in the HOF as a Heatle and there he shall remain. Duncan probably (definitely) would’ve been on the all-time BK team, but we are doing franchises and he gets to be with Odin instead. Odin’s penchant for free-wheeling trading and lack of loyalty (the anti-Mike, if you will) means that very few players get the career necessary in South Beach to have their faces molded in their sand castle Mt. Rushmore.
Orlando MagicTim: Tracy McGrady, Mike Conley, Wilt Chamberlain, Brandon Griner
Delap: Tracy McGrady, Wilt Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Players Considered: Nick King, Jerry West, Terry Cummings
Tim’s Reasoning: McGrady is the obvious number one, and I elected to leave Kareem off because I’ll always remember him for the franchise that drafted him (RIP SPL). I have this weird thing where I don’t think Wilt was *that* good. My logic may be flawed, but he never played much defense and I'm not sure what his scoring ceiling was. Great rebounder though. Also, Wilt only played 11 seasons, albeit all of them with the Magic. Conley played 10 with Orlando, two more with Tri-Cities, and probably has another 3-4 good seasons (at a minimum) left in him. I also respect that Conley was passed on by six other teams in the draft, whereas Chamberlain went 1.1. Griner was a fun one to think way back on and a key cog in those successful early Magic teams. I have no idea how Bellamy made Delap’s list.
Delap’s Reasoning: When I think of Orlando, no offense Mike Conley, I think of McGrady and power bigs… so their Rushmore reflects that. Kareem’s best days may have been in LA, but he was beloved in the Magic Kingdom.
Washington BulletsTim: Simisola Shittu, Greg Monroe, Dwight Howard, Dwyane Wade
Delap: Dwight Howard, Greg Monroe, Simisola Shittu, Shabazz Muhammad
Players Considered: Peyton Gragg
Tim’s Reasoning: It pained me to put Shittu on this list as he should be in the Hall as a Bull, but we love him in Chicago so he had to be #1. He edges fellow HOFer Monroe as he led the league in career win shares for a short time. It’s hard to remember, but Kn even invested some upgrade points into Simi and Monroe over 20 sim seasons ago, so they were clearly special in the minds of the Washington faithful. There’s a lot of “what could have been” coming out of Washington, and the three great bigs at the top of this list highlight that. Fourth is a tough one, but I’m not sure it really matters. I know Delap hates IRL and sim Wade, so I wanted to see him get mad about my choice but he’s too even-keeled for that I guess. I think Wade could be a HOF shooting guard with his 22/7 per-36 career stat line and 1.15 pts/tsa.
Delap’s Reasoning: Not sure the order on the 1st 3 matter, but I think of Simi in his winning days on other teams first… so Dwight slots into #1 for them in my mind. I have Shabazz narrowly ahead of Wade, but if Wade puts up another year or two of decent contributions he’ll have that spot in my mind.
Chicago Bulls Tim: LeBron James, Oscar Robertson, Dave Lattin, Dominique Wilkins
Delap: LeBron James, Oscar Robertson, Dave Lattin, Miles Bridges
Players Considered: Simisola Shittu
Tim’s Reasoning: A number of players could’ve seen their careers flourish in Chicago, but a couple of big-named dickheads leaving the Windy City (Antawn Jamison, Willis Reed) caused massive sell-offs that shortened the careers of many Chicagoans. I disagree on Bridges being a no-brainer. I hate to say it, but he’s still almost 50/50 Bulls and Raptors, but I think my memory is thrown off a bit because of all the shuffling that happened post-contraction. Dominique’s career scoring numbers will always be less than they could have been due to playing alongside LeBron, Oscar, Jabari, and soon to be Butch Lee, but if he was a one-man show or even the top dog, he could average 30 in his prime. I don’t think it’s fair to hold his teammates against him.
Delap’s Reasoning: This was surprisingly one of the easiest ones for me and I only really considered the 5 guys listed in our collective Top 4s. Bridges over ‘Nique seems like a no-brainer. ‘Nique has more titles, but that is because of #s 1 and 2 on the list. Bridges was a scoring machine and really shined in Chicago.
Dallas MavericksTim: Kyrie Irving, Cam Reddish, Marcus Taylor, Al Harrington
Delap: Kyrie Irving, Cam Reddish, Al Harrington, Marcus Taylor
Players Considered: Neon Boudeaux, Killian Tillie, Larry Bird
Tim’s Reasoning: Duh on the first two. Absolutely no contest, though I think Larry Bird could end up at #2 assuming that Delap doesn’t pull a Kevin Durant with him. Reddish never won a title, and Bird has some 15 seasons or so to accomplish what Cam never did. They seem like pretty similar players otherwise. Harrington won a title, but he was 34 and picked up by Kyrie and Boogie Cousins that season. Marcus Taylor’s career numbers don’t look great, but they were made less impressive by him playing about seven years longer than he should have. I honestly forgot Boudeaux was even a Maverick. He’ll always be an MJ Spur to me.
Delap’s Reasoning: #s 1 and 2 are no brainers, as clearly the best players in franchise history. Harrington meant more to the franchise than Taylor did, due to longevity and being a part of the only Mavs title team in 2019. Marcus Taylor edges out Boudeaux because of longevity and +5 in the TC.
Portland Trail Blazers Tim: Caron Butler, Malcolm Moore, AJ Guyton, David Robinson
Delap: Caron Butler, David Robinson, AJ Guyton, Isaac Bonga
Players Considered: Jake Tsakalidis, Grant Hill, Bill Cartwright, Elgin Baylor, Amare Stoudemire
Tim’s Reasoning: I can’t believe Delap left Moore off as she was close to being put above Butler for me. Moore was elite for about six years, and had she come into the league at 21 or 22 instead of 25, she’s probably at or near the top in career steals, which is also where Butler shined. Moore, like Butler, was also an elite rebounder from the wing position. Plus, one of the hallmark’s of Majic’s tenure as GM of the Blazers is collusion with Druce, and guess where he eventually traded Moore? By quality, Robinson is 100x better as a player than Guyton ever was, but Guyton won an MVP (lol) and is someone Majic has always petitioned for as a player, whereas The Admiral wasn’t even beloved enough to have a HOF profile written for him.
Delap’s Reasoning: The last spot for me was a crapshoot between Hill, Moore, and Bonga. I settled on Bonga because I think he had the highest peak and had a longer stint with the team than Moore. Guyton remains the worst player in the HOF, but he absolutely deserves a spot here. Caron Butler is Mr. Blazer, despite having a somewhat under-the-radar, low-key career.
Tri-Cities BlackhawksTim: Adrian Dantley, Josh Howard, Allen Iverson, Darko Milicic
Delap: Adrian Dantley, Josh Howard, Allen Iverson, Darko Milicic
Players Considered: Greg Oden, Jason Kidd
Tim’s Reasoning: Lol at this hodge podge of trash. Dantley is the exception as a good player most teams would want. Josh Howard makes a decent backup wing for some teams. Iverson is a point guard who won’t destroy your team. Milicic is a power forward who has a 50/50 chance of having a good season in an outside-focused offense. As for players who could’ve been something in Tri-Cities, let’s not forget David Robinson. He and Duncan on rookie contracts probably could’ve teamed up to bring BK his first title.
Delap’s Reasoning: Hey! Total agreement! Constant roster churn and sporadic mid-5.0 GMing made this Rushmore pretty crappy. Could’ve been Duncan, Gragg, Bison Dele, Earl Monroe… but alas…
Vancouver Grizzlies Tim: Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, Tyler Ennis, Brad Holland
Delap: Kevin Durant, Tyler Ennis, Anthony Davis, Terry Cummings
Players Considered: Christian Laettner
Tim’s Reasoning: Perhaps Delap and I have a fundamental disagreement on why someone belongs on Mt. Rushmore. Durant is obvious as the best player the team has had since Druce returned. Anthony Davis is second on this list for me because the trade for he and KD fundamentally influenced how this team was going to be built. I also think Ennis is overrated, but he is the only Vancouver expansion pick still standing and has had a good amount invested into him. Cummings is a better player than Holland (and Ennis and AD) but he hasn’t been in Vancouver long enough for me to put him up there. I think of Holland as a guy that Vancouver took a big risk on that not many others were willing to and someone that will be a Grizz for a long time.
Delap’s Reasoning: I remain firmly on team Holland isn’t that great and Ennis is overrated, but Ennis is clearly their 2nd best player since the return. Davis is on the mountain, but the Vancouverites surely have bad feelings about it given his playoff performances.
San Antonio Spurs Tim: Nikola Jokic, Adam Morrison, Sleepy Floyd, Tiny Archibald
Delap: Darren Tillis, Tiny Archibald, Jerry Lucas, Adam Morrison
Players Considered: Mychal Thompson
Tim’s Reasoning: How is Jokic not number one? His signing to the MLE was brilliant for Pointyegg. He just finished third in win shares for centers, accumulating nearly a third of his team’s total. He’s only been there one year, but the team hasn’t existed long so I’m throwing longevity out here. He is a building block for them and you love to see a new GM finding a diamond in the rough. Nabbing Jokic on the MLE was a veteran GM type of move. I think Morrison has a shot to be a good but not great small forward and maybe the third or fourth best player on a good team. After those two, there isn’t much. Thompson does a couple of things well but the holes in his inside and jumper are too much and only one can be fixed via upgrades.
Delap’s Reasoning: Darren Tillis is the GOAT in San Antonio… and that is sad. Adam Morrison should ascend to the top of this hill, even with average development, by the end of his rookie deal. Jerry Lucas absolutely deserves to be on Rushmore somewhere, but couldn’t quite knock off anyone in Miami, Dallas, or Atlanta to be there. San Antone is as good of a spot as any for him I suppose.
Oakland OaksTim: Sam Jones, Marcus Camby, Shawnelle Scott, Dan Majerle
Delap: Sam Jones, Shawnelle Scott, Marcus Camby, Guy Rodgers
Players Considered: Otis Birdsong, Harold Miner, John Havlicek
Tim’s Reasoning: Sam Jones is the obvious first, but Austin Carr could slide his way up these rankings if Kujo keeps setting DCs. Camby, like Jokic for San Antonio, was a really nice find for Kujo as a guy lots of GMs had given up on. Majerle could’ve been higher on this list but he was moved to Orlando arguably too quickly, but he also didn’t improve much outside of his +25 inside, which is unfortunate because his rebounding was so promising. The Oaks have 1.1 next season, so maybe Kevin Garnett will find his way up the list?
Delap’s Reasoning: Easy 3, hard to find a 4th. I don’t have much to say about it.
New York KnicksTim: Firsto Picko, Jock Landale, Stan Haynes, Quincy McCall
Delap: Firsto Picko, Jock Landale, Stan Haynes, Quincy McCall
Players Considered: George Mikan, Jesse Epstein, Whitey Von Nieda
Tim’s Reasoning: Crazy to think about the quantity of great bigs this team had in their short existence. Had Firsto not been lost in The Great Contraction, he’s probably got another 30-40 win shares at least, moving him closer to the top of the career leaderboard. People forget about Jock because he was always second fiddle, but it’s crazy to think about how efficient of a scorer he was at 1.2 pts/tsa for his career. Haynes is the even more forgotten version of Jock and had he not entered the league on the wrong side of 30 he’d be remembered as one of the more efficient big men in league history. Quincy was the pioneer of the inside-focused offense in my opinion and was a great example of how 5.0 was going to be different from 4.0 from the outset. The man shot 28 threes in eight seasons but was still a member of two titles teams, proving that 1) it’s not going to be all about point guards and 2) even the little guys could get inside buckets.
Delap’s Reasoning: Like the Magic, I think of the Knicks and I think of their bigs. True to 4.0 form, eric started 5.0 and didn’t care who his guards and wings were, stockpiling bigs on bigs on bigs and having a fantastic hit rate. All he did was hit HOFers and put together an amazing run in just over a decade. Firsto was the original GOAT of 5.0 and Jock was his right-hand mate (that’s Australian for ‘man’). Whitey was easily the best wing he had, but just wasn’t good enough to crack Rushmore. McCall was almost a forgotten man on those teams, but the ownership group certainly loved Q.
Overall Rankings
| Tim | Delap | |
| 1. | Chicago | Chicago |
| 2. | Harlem | Harlem |
| 3. | New York | Charlotte |
| 4. | Atlanta | New York |
| 5. | Charlotte | Atlanta |
| 6. | Dallas | Dallas |
| 7. | Orlando | Orlando |
| 8. | Portland | Detroit |
| 9. | Detroit | Portland |
| 10. | Washington | Miami |
| 11. | Vancouver | Washington |
| 12. | Miami | Vancouver |
| 13. | Oakland | Oakland |
| 14. | Tri-Cities | Tri-Cities |
| 15. | San Antonio | San Antonio |
