Post by TimPig on Jul 5, 2018 21:34:22 GMT
1. This was a notoriously poor class IRL. Do the grades and write-ups in TMBSL indicate the same level of weakness?
Fason
No not at all, this class has much better starting grades than any of the previous classes of 5.0. Which shows just how much it comes down to who is making the players. This is supposed to be the worst class of all time and DerMarr Johnson who just went 1.2 has better starting grades than Michael Jordan who went 1.2 in what was supposed to be the greatest class of all time.
This class seems to have quite a few good looking wings with Dermarr Johnson, Desmond Mason, Mike Miller, Darius Miles, Hedo Turkoglu*. Then, combo guards Courtney Alexander and Jamal Crawford are starting with nice scoring grades and high enough handling grades that they should be able to start at PG almost immediately.
The bigs don't look as good as expected but I don't see why Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift and Chris Mihm can't be at least decent third bigs since it looks like they will block shots. Then 18 year old Livio Jean-Charles and the 7'8 400 pound DeeAndre Hulett were nice additions to the class.
Back to it coming down to who is making the players, pretty much every person that has commished or made players, has had an adjustment period where they don't completely figure out what they want to do until their third class. With the first two classes, usually one ends up a little too good and the other disappoints. We will see where this class falls for Druce in a few years.
Majic
I would have to agree with that, more than any previous class so far this one seemed to lack any potential star power. Both in name and grades it doesn't seem like there was even 1 guy that could be HOF worthy. However, the biggest thing to consider here is theres a new Commish creating these prospects, so there could be a huge variance on what it turns out to be. Ultimately I think this is going to be a class that fills in the edges of the league and provides good depth. I think we will see a number of players stick around a long time, not as stars but rather role players and depth pieces. I actually think this could be really helpful to the league as depth overall seems to be a bit light at the moment.
Delap
Unfortunately, yes. There are a very limited number of players with write-ups and grades that get me excited about them. I think Crawford and Miles are clearly studs by grades, but both could be heavily curtailed by turnovers. Real life #1 K-Mart is just the type of player we haven't seen succeed in 4.0 or 5.0... so I wouldn't bet on it happening here. Mike Miller's scoring grades make him the safest bet of the bunch, but even then I am not sure I see him reaching All-Star status at either SG or SF in his career. A few other guys have grades and/or write-ups that make them look like potential studs (Jean-Charles, DerMarr Johnson, and Hedo), but with this being Druce's first class... anything can really happen.
The rest of the class looks pretty weak. I don't see a huge difference between #15 and #35 on my board.
JHB
This class actually look quite a bit more appealing to me than the most previous class at first glance, but as always I have absolutely no expectations until I understand Druce and his tendencies better.
Eric
It's looking grim, so it's looking like a real nice job of draft building. Three players from the IRL lotto were out of the league within six years, I bet we top that. There are a whopping three players with at least B- B- scoring grades, there's no true big with at least B C scoring grades, there's nobody with B+ or better defense, there's one player with B+ or better rebounding, the class is undersized, low potential, human sacrifice (not that there's anything wrong with that), cats and dogs living together, MASS HYSTERIA. And they called mine a crapdraft.
TimPig
I think the biggest question mark here is how Druce will be making players. The grades seem to indicate there will be plenty of talented and successful players, but there’s the extra curveball being added in with Druce’s inexperience creating prospects. I believe he had an old spreadsheet of Odin’s that gave him something to follow, so the class overall shouldn’t be too great or too bad.
Anyway, I think there were quite a few strong wing players in this class and a couple of promising bigs. It looks much better than what this class did IRL.
Mike
Worst class since I joined, yes. The grades are kinda aiming to that weakness but I still have hopes that we'll find some gems hiding in it due the league status, we need a solid amount of average players to keep a better balance. Considering the next class is not the greatest either, I really hope there are solid additions otherwise I'm not going out of this freaking unweighted lotto anytime soon.
2. Taking into account where they were picked, which lottery selection was the best value? Any other steals?
Fason
Jamal Crawford at 1.10 looks like the best value to me, going into the draft I think most would have had him as the top PG prospect and he has the grades to be good right away.
Kenyon Martin is another good value at 1.8, before the grades were released I think most thought he'd go 1.1 and no worse than 1.3. Yes his jumper is going to start pretty low, but with the upgrade rules of 5.0, a GM can easily fix that.
Marcus Fizer at 1.14 could be another steal. He looks like a project but with his combo of inside scoring, strength and offensive rebounding, he should have a chance to be a good PF that is also SF eligible.
Majic
This is probably a cop out on this answer, but the draft pretty much went as most would have guessed. The better looking players came off the board in a way I would have ranked them, for the most part. I was a huge fan of Stromile Swift, so him falling to 9 was the biggest question to me. 5.0 has given life to big men, and if he is anywhere close to his 4.0 numbers he will be a beast. Fizer seemd to drop a bit, but his profile just read as "OK" to me.
Delap
Picks 4-7 were all fantastic. I don't see Fizer being the steal that fecta thinks he is... but at 14 I don't expect the world. However, the best pick was Jamal Crawford at #10. If you can transition him to SG and pair him with a PG in the backcourt, I think he ends up as the best player in the draft. If his GM leaves him at PG, well... that may not go well.
JHB
Jamal Crawford at 10 and Jason Hart at 13 feel like steals to me. Believe JC was at or near the top in both mocks. Potential turnovers could be a concern, but everything else looks pretty good and if he can score, that will make him good enough for most GM's. Jason Hart seems to have the fewest glaring holes in his game and good enough starting grades that he could devellop into a star with some good TC's.
Eric
1.12 DeeAndre Hulett. you can't teach size, and the guy has literally max size attributes. he's up 3.4 FG% on Kenyon Martin just from weight, 1.5 wins a year just from height, Inside listed as a strength, he's on the other side of the C barrier in outside, they have the same d/r grades, and he's +1 potential. and there were two other bigs taken ahead of him besides Kenyon! huge value.
1.05 Mike Miller's probably the third best profile so that's kind of a steal but two spots isn't that big a drop.
TimPig
I won’t toot my own horn here by saying Fizer, who had a really nice write-up and IMO was a top-5-to-7 prospect. Instead, I’ll say Kn found someone at 1.5 in Mike Miller who looks really nice. Solid write-up and I was torn between him and Mason at 1.3, but ultimately went with Mason due to the higher inside, defense, and rebounding.
Miller should be able to score, which is exactly what Kn needs with both Barkley and Shard disappointing so far. With good size and SG eligibility, he looks like the type of prospect who can turn things around for the Bullets. Him and Shittu look like a great young inside/outside combo.
Mike
It's gotta be Jamal Crawford, everyone is really high on him but I feel he won't live up to his PG expectations and end up as SG so I had to pass on him. I think Fizer could be a steal, looks like he's gonna be really solid and also Mateen Cleaves. We're lacking of PG's on the league and he slides till 18 makes it really worth the pick.
3. Taking into account where they were picked, which lottery selection was the worst value? Any other major reaches?
Fason
I honestly don't see any picks in the lotto that were terrible values. My first thought to seeing Courtney Alexander go 1.1 was
but his grades and writeup are much better than expected. For the purpose of answering the question, I'll say Quentin Richardson because those grades are pretty underwhelming and Marcus Fizer/Chris Mihm were still available. But I could easily be completely wrong, I vaguely remember Druce having Richardson at one point in 4.0 and believe he was on one Druce's championship winning teams.
Majic
I thought the Livio pick was interesting, but Mike had back to back picks and given his age this will be a big Boom or Bust guy. Stash him for a year or two and hope he gets a dream Teen TC. The only other one was the pick of Mason at 3. This mostly stems from the fact I liked Miles and Miller a bit more than him. The profile makes it seem like he will struggle on defense a bit. Really that was the only one I personally disagreed with.
Delap
The first overall pick was atrocious. Eric really missed on that one (word doc it, friend.) I'm incredibly ambivalent about Desmond Mason, as I'm sure all IRL GMs were during his early years in the league. He's just a guy, ya know? Quentin Richardson was another reach that I would've avoided. Gotta trade back, if possible, at that spot and take a swing at a player like Eddie House, who offers all the upside (and downside) of Q-Dog and was available 15 picks later... at least make a few bucks off the deal.
JHB
I really hate Courtney Alexander at 1 overall. May never be much of a scorer, low rebounding grade may indicate very low strength. Not the kind of PG I would want to have at #1 with the expectation that player will be a star.
Eric
1.07 Livio Jean-Charles woof. LE WOOF EH DOTTE COMME, HON HON HON. C Outside bad jump shot profile (TWICE) is a death sentence. unrefined and high jumping is always a red flag, you gotta hope B+ Inside has enough room for inside to make that work, he'll need about 100. there's nothing from his grades/profile i'm confident will be a strength for him except quickness, which is not that useful especially for a big and which undermines my confidence in his rebounding grade, and i wasn't that confident to start with.
and he was one of two bigs taken at the same time by Mike!
and he passed up clearly superior options both times!
woooooooooof
1.04 Darius Miles was also really bad. bad handling high jumping profile, C outside grade with no mention of jump shot, not SG eligible. C rebounding with bad rebounding profile is also a red flag but as an SF with A potential he should grow into at least an okay one. i'm not saying he'll be a bad player, at least he'll block for you, i'm saying taking him when Mike Miller was still on the board was a huge reach.
1.11 Quentin Richardson i also didn't like. B- outside and strong three shot could mean 80 three 40 jumper. good luck with that. C inside, C- handling, C defense, and C rebounding are ALL areas of concern - each one could be fine or a disaster, four turns of russian roulette ain't great odds. less of a reach simply because so few guys were left though.
TimPig
I thought Quentin Richardson was a reach at 1.11 with Fizer, Hart, and Mihm still on the board, but I see how Q-Rich’s potential might be enticing to Taco. With two lottery picks, the Warriors snagged two guys in Miles and Richardson who both look like boom or bust prospects. Richardson’s strength was his 3-point shot, and his outside is only a B-, so his jumper could be pretty average. He doesn’t appear to have strengths anywhere else.
Kenyon Martin also worries me at 1.8. The IRL 1.1 pick had a decent career, but his write-up reminds me of another Austin Wiley or Udoka Azubuike. He’s got an awful jumper, so his free throw shooting will be bad and it looks like all of his upgrades may need to go into that. I’m guessing he’ll have high strength, which means he’ll be shooting a lot of FTs (I think). Also, one of his strengths is that he’s a “vocal leader”, which isn’t even a thing in the software.
Mike
Hard to tell when you have so much uncertainty with this class, I'd say Quentin Richardson but just cause he had less press around the league. Also, I wouldn't call them reaches but the first couple of picks were worth taking the risks Demarr, Desmond and such but good for me cause I got Kenyon.
4. If you had selections 1-5, who would you have picked at each spot with a quick sentence about why?
Fason
1. DerMarr Johnson - I really liked his combo of scoring grades and size. He was also on Jay Bilas' length list for bleals.
2. Courtney Alexander - Eric may have gotten this one right, his scoring grades are good and he can play PG right away.
3. Mike Miller - He has the grades and write up to become a good scorer and surprisingly decent on defense.
4. Desmond Mason - Well rounded grades and good write up, should be good as long as the inside grades isn't mostly jumping.
5. Hedo Turkoglu - Very good starting scoring grades and I like the B- rebounding grade.
Majic
1) Courtney Alexander - that profile sounds very appealing, and its such an important position
2) DerMarr Johson - really liked the profile write up on him. close between him and Alexander for 1.1
3) Mike Miller - close with Miles, but Miller seems like he is NBA ready. lowest floor, know what you are getting
4) Darius Miles - good starting grades and young. Going to need some points into him, but think he could be good
5) Stromile Swift - after the top 4 it seems to drop off a bit, and as I have stated, Swift presents alot of positives.
Delap
1. The Spurs desperately need a steady hand and/or a HUGE swing at a star. That leaves you with two real options: Mike Miller (the steady hand) or DerMarr Johnson (the swing at a star.) My sim philosophy has always been about upside... so I would've gone with DerMarr Johnson.
2. With Johnson off the board the Heat can easily just pick Mike Miller and get him on the MegaBus from Gainesville to Miami for the low cost of like $13. He slides right into that lineup to provide a 2nd scoring punch with Zion.
3. Playing against the odds of Halpert leaving, the Bulls need to pick a scoring wing to either replace him or be a jack-of-all-trades backup off the bench. Darius Miles is the pick here.
4. With Miles off the board, the Warriors can move to the next scoring wing on their board or their top big in the draft, as both are major needs in Oakland. I think you have to make the call to Hedo Turkoglu here, as the best big in the class, who could ultimately swing to SF if necessary based on future moves.
5. Rashard Lewis should be the SF of the future, so drafting a PG or big is the right move at this spot, sorry Desmond. You either go with upside (Jean-Charles) or established production (K-Mart). I would go with Livio Jean-Charles to match the age of my future core (Lewis, Shittu) and hope that those 3 form the front-court of the future in the Chocolate City.
JHB
1. Darius Miles. I'll take the elite B+ inside grade and a 19 year old with A potential (speculating that Druce will hold close to true on potential) and hope that I can turn him into an elite scoring wing. This is a real boom or bust pick but the upside is a bit too tantalizing to pass.
2. Desmond Mason. More than anything, I look to find scoring wings when I have high draft picks. That's mainly because grades are worthless as indicators of what a big will be able to do until you can see their shot-blocking and traditionally, elite point guards have been able to be moved for much less than wings in the trade market. B C+ is a strong set of starting grades for Desmond Mason as far as scoring goes, and the combination of his 'other' grades indicates he shouldn't have any real holes in his game. I would say he's likely one of the more safe picks in the lottery.
3. Mike Miller. Still hunting for a scoring wing and I like the size and scoring grades plus A potential.
4. Jason Hart. As stated above, I think his game doesn't have any obvious holes outside of defense (and we don't currently have a league full of super defenders at PG, so NBD IMHO) and has the potential to become a star.
5. DeeAndre Hulett. He's extremely unique for a TMBSL prospect and the actual Hulett IRL was a shooting guard. Usually that means it's a commish pet cat (see: Godbolt, Champ) and they turn out pretty well.
HM: Jamal Crawford, Etan Thomas, DerMarr Johnson, Courtney Alexander
Eric
1. Courtney Alexander. i picked him and i stick with it. C+ B- with "pure scorer finish at the rim" profile is by far the best scoring write up for a PG with plus defense, and unlike a lot of recent combo guards he starts with A- handling so is a lock to stay PG eligible.
2. DerMarr Johnson. easy #2 with B- B and glowing scoring + blocks profile. slight concern with C- handling and no handling profile, bigger concern with C rebounding and negative rebounding profile, but appears to be SG eligible so should be fine.
3. Mike Miller. B- B- and another glowing scoring + defense profile. only thing keeping him under dermarr is the turnover red flag.
4. Desmond Mason. C+ outside isn't ideal but has jump shot profile. "athleticism and no strength" profiles are always dicey but with B inside should still have plenty of inside. slight concern with C- handling and no handling profile.
5. DeeAndre Hulett for reasons stated above.
TimPig
1.1 - DerMarr Johnson. Alexander wasn’t a bad pick by any means, but I’m thinking the thought process going into this pick was that he’d be a point guard with size who can score and defend. But the depleted Spurs have pretty much only one decent player on their roster in Jason Williams, who is a point guard. I think a player like Johnson would’ve given them two solid outside prospects to work with. The scoring grades are pretty great to start and his write-up indicates a volume scorer.
1.2 - Courtney Alexander. Yawn has Zion and Benji to build around, so adding a point guard like Alexander would’ve been huge. Stockton doesn’t look like he’ll ever be worth a damn with his awful shooting percentages.
1.3 - Desmond Mason. Everything about Mason looks good except for his strength. His write-up indicates a solid player who can score from everywhere, defend well (tied with Dan Langhi for the best defense grade in the draft), and grab some boards. The Bulls are at risk of losing Halpert this offseason, so Mason gives them a potential long-term replacement. If Halpert does come back, Mason should be a good backup at the 3 and 4. Mike Miller was the other option here, but I think he has more question marks than Mason (strength, rebounding, turnovers).
1.4 - Mike Miller. Taco went with Darius Miles here, who looks like a boom or bust prospect. For a team like the Warriors, who are trying to find anyone to build around, I’d be worried about a prospect with a very low floor. Miller, at the very least, should be a good scorer. If I’m the Warriors, I’m trying to grab any one of Johnson, Mason, or Miller if they’re available at 1.4.
1.5 - Jamal Crawford. Kn scored here by grabbing Miller, but in this draft re-do Miller is off the board at 1.4, so I have the Bullets snagging Crawford, who looks like he’ll be a good scorer. The C inside grade is scary and could have a really ugly impact on his volume, but the Bullets are in dire need of a guard who can score. Even if Crawford doesn’t get to PG eligibility, the Bullets would’ve been fine playing him at SG.
Mike
1-Jamal Crawford, league lacks PG's, he's been praised as possibly the best out there he either gets real or holds a good market value for some time.
2-Darius Miles, I can see him being the best scorer out there but for personal reasons. Always got good out of nowhere in my past experiences lol
3-Hedo the Turk, another high praised around like if they felt he will become a force. Good trade value too if you feel he won't live up to expectations..
4-Livio Jean Charles, his name sounds good, added at last to boost the class. I'd take the risk with him any day, remember I'm hoping to find hiding gems in this class.
5- Here gets messy, after these names I'm not interested in anything else so this could go to any of these Mike Miller, Kenyon Martin, Fizer or Desmond. They're all equally shit to me tho.
5. Grade Fecta’s Lotto Grades and provide some reasoning for your grade.
Fason
Courtney Alexander - B - I can't really disagree with the B+ he gave or anything he said.
DerMarr Johnson - C - The B grade he gave isn't that bad, but the write up is not kind enough to the player many felt should have gone 1.1.
Desmond Mason - D - The C+ grade and write up seemed bitter and bias, I've already said why I like Mason.
Darius Miles - B - B+ for the pick may be a little too high but I don't disagree with what he said, Miles was by far the biggest boom or bust player in this class.
Mike Miller - A - He got this one right with the A grade and write up.
Hedu Turkoglu - C - B was not a high enough grade for this pick.
Livio Jean Charles - B - B- was a fair grade and so is the B I'm giving Fecta.
Kenyon Martin - A - The A- grade he gave Mike was spot on.
Stromile Swift - D - B- is way too low of a grade for Swift at 1.9, he could be the best big in the class.
Jamal Crawford - D - B- is way too low of a grade for Crawford at 1.10, he could be the best PG in the class.
Quentin Richardson - B+ - Only reason I'm not giving Fecta's D grade and slamming of this pick an A is because of what I said earlier about Druce's possible fondness of Richardson.
DeeAndre Hulett - B - Fair grade of B and write up.
Jason Hart - B - I don't disagree with his B grade or write up.
Marcus Fizer - C- - How do you talk about Marcus Fizer multiple times throughout the article then only give an A- for getting him at 1.14?
Chris Mihm - B- - Kind words for Mihm but the grade of B+ was too low.
Majic
B
Great effort and a really well thought out article. I think he was a bit too kind in giving out the grades, but as I mentioned above, there really didnt seem to be alot of craziness with the draft. Everything sort of played out pretty cut and dry so its hard to make that exciting. Add in this is a pretty "meh" class and its not the most exciting thing to write about.
Delap
Overall I think his grades were sorta OK. Big discrepancies on my end are at picks 1, 7, 8, and 14. I don't like K-Mart or Fizer as sim-players, so I don't really see the high grades panning out for them. I really agree with his Richardson and Mason feelings... both are just so meh. I think the rest are mostly fair. Drastically underselling Jamal Crawford at 10 though. That's a money beet.
JHB
F. Fecta has shown he can't put together his own winning 5.0 team in a soft conference so obviously his opinions are inherently flawed.
Eric
Overall C+.
I like the effort but I felt like a lot of it was just restating the profiles without trying to translate them from profile speak into what it means on the court, especially with regard to grades. Example, he gives Jason Hart 'decent grade set' even though he's strong in threes and has C+ Outside, which is a chernobyl red flag for me. I also would like a little more formatting, throw in a pic or something.
TimPig
D. The inconsistency in grading when you look at his mock vs. his lotto grades is appalling. Some examples:
- Courtney Alexander went 1.15 in his mock and wasn’t even deserving of actual commentary. He gave this pick at 1.1 a B+.
- DerMarr Johnson wasn’t a lottery pick in his mock and then went 1.2. He gave this pick a B.
- Desmond Mason wasn’t a lottery pick in his mock and then went 1.3. He gave this grade a C+, so at least he was semi-consistent for the first time, but the reasons he gave for wanting Miller above Mason were faulty at best.
- Livio-Jean Charles wasn’t a lotto pick in his mock draft and went 1.7. He gave this pick a B.
- He had Marcus Fizer at 1.2 and Kenyon Martin at 1.4 in his mock. Fizer actually went 1.14 and Martin went 1.8. There was a 12-pick difference for Fizer and a 4-pick difference for Martin. Both picks were given an A- grade.
Mike
Well I'll give him a B+ cause his lotto mock was fucking horrible guessing, he improved format and everything.
10. Los Angeles Lakers. Jamal Crawford. Fecta's grade: B-
That one sucked too, JC at 10 in this class is great, dunno what you gotta do to get A+ then.
FasonNo not at all, this class has much better starting grades than any of the previous classes of 5.0. Which shows just how much it comes down to who is making the players. This is supposed to be the worst class of all time and DerMarr Johnson who just went 1.2 has better starting grades than Michael Jordan who went 1.2 in what was supposed to be the greatest class of all time.
This class seems to have quite a few good looking wings with Dermarr Johnson, Desmond Mason, Mike Miller, Darius Miles, Hedo Turkoglu*. Then, combo guards Courtney Alexander and Jamal Crawford are starting with nice scoring grades and high enough handling grades that they should be able to start at PG almost immediately.
The bigs don't look as good as expected but I don't see why Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift and Chris Mihm can't be at least decent third bigs since it looks like they will block shots. Then 18 year old Livio Jean-Charles and the 7'8 400 pound DeeAndre Hulett were nice additions to the class.
Back to it coming down to who is making the players, pretty much every person that has commished or made players, has had an adjustment period where they don't completely figure out what they want to do until their third class. With the first two classes, usually one ends up a little too good and the other disappoints. We will see where this class falls for Druce in a few years.
MajicI would have to agree with that, more than any previous class so far this one seemed to lack any potential star power. Both in name and grades it doesn't seem like there was even 1 guy that could be HOF worthy. However, the biggest thing to consider here is theres a new Commish creating these prospects, so there could be a huge variance on what it turns out to be. Ultimately I think this is going to be a class that fills in the edges of the league and provides good depth. I think we will see a number of players stick around a long time, not as stars but rather role players and depth pieces. I actually think this could be really helpful to the league as depth overall seems to be a bit light at the moment.
DelapUnfortunately, yes. There are a very limited number of players with write-ups and grades that get me excited about them. I think Crawford and Miles are clearly studs by grades, but both could be heavily curtailed by turnovers. Real life #1 K-Mart is just the type of player we haven't seen succeed in 4.0 or 5.0... so I wouldn't bet on it happening here. Mike Miller's scoring grades make him the safest bet of the bunch, but even then I am not sure I see him reaching All-Star status at either SG or SF in his career. A few other guys have grades and/or write-ups that make them look like potential studs (Jean-Charles, DerMarr Johnson, and Hedo), but with this being Druce's first class... anything can really happen.
The rest of the class looks pretty weak. I don't see a huge difference between #15 and #35 on my board.
JHBThis class actually look quite a bit more appealing to me than the most previous class at first glance, but as always I have absolutely no expectations until I understand Druce and his tendencies better.
EricIt's looking grim, so it's looking like a real nice job of draft building. Three players from the IRL lotto were out of the league within six years, I bet we top that. There are a whopping three players with at least B- B- scoring grades, there's no true big with at least B C scoring grades, there's nobody with B+ or better defense, there's one player with B+ or better rebounding, the class is undersized, low potential, human sacrifice (not that there's anything wrong with that), cats and dogs living together, MASS HYSTERIA. And they called mine a crapdraft.
TimPig I think the biggest question mark here is how Druce will be making players. The grades seem to indicate there will be plenty of talented and successful players, but there’s the extra curveball being added in with Druce’s inexperience creating prospects. I believe he had an old spreadsheet of Odin’s that gave him something to follow, so the class overall shouldn’t be too great or too bad.
Anyway, I think there were quite a few strong wing players in this class and a couple of promising bigs. It looks much better than what this class did IRL.
MikeWorst class since I joined, yes. The grades are kinda aiming to that weakness but I still have hopes that we'll find some gems hiding in it due the league status, we need a solid amount of average players to keep a better balance. Considering the next class is not the greatest either, I really hope there are solid additions otherwise I'm not going out of this freaking unweighted lotto anytime soon.
2. Taking into account where they were picked, which lottery selection was the best value? Any other steals?
FasonJamal Crawford at 1.10 looks like the best value to me, going into the draft I think most would have had him as the top PG prospect and he has the grades to be good right away.
Kenyon Martin is another good value at 1.8, before the grades were released I think most thought he'd go 1.1 and no worse than 1.3. Yes his jumper is going to start pretty low, but with the upgrade rules of 5.0, a GM can easily fix that.
Marcus Fizer at 1.14 could be another steal. He looks like a project but with his combo of inside scoring, strength and offensive rebounding, he should have a chance to be a good PF that is also SF eligible.
MajicThis is probably a cop out on this answer, but the draft pretty much went as most would have guessed. The better looking players came off the board in a way I would have ranked them, for the most part. I was a huge fan of Stromile Swift, so him falling to 9 was the biggest question to me. 5.0 has given life to big men, and if he is anywhere close to his 4.0 numbers he will be a beast. Fizer seemd to drop a bit, but his profile just read as "OK" to me.
DelapPicks 4-7 were all fantastic. I don't see Fizer being the steal that fecta thinks he is... but at 14 I don't expect the world. However, the best pick was Jamal Crawford at #10. If you can transition him to SG and pair him with a PG in the backcourt, I think he ends up as the best player in the draft. If his GM leaves him at PG, well... that may not go well.
JHBJamal Crawford at 10 and Jason Hart at 13 feel like steals to me. Believe JC was at or near the top in both mocks. Potential turnovers could be a concern, but everything else looks pretty good and if he can score, that will make him good enough for most GM's. Jason Hart seems to have the fewest glaring holes in his game and good enough starting grades that he could devellop into a star with some good TC's.
Eric 1.12 DeeAndre Hulett. you can't teach size, and the guy has literally max size attributes. he's up 3.4 FG% on Kenyon Martin just from weight, 1.5 wins a year just from height, Inside listed as a strength, he's on the other side of the C barrier in outside, they have the same d/r grades, and he's +1 potential. and there were two other bigs taken ahead of him besides Kenyon! huge value.
1.05 Mike Miller's probably the third best profile so that's kind of a steal but two spots isn't that big a drop.
TimPig I won’t toot my own horn here by saying Fizer, who had a really nice write-up and IMO was a top-5-to-7 prospect. Instead, I’ll say Kn found someone at 1.5 in Mike Miller who looks really nice. Solid write-up and I was torn between him and Mason at 1.3, but ultimately went with Mason due to the higher inside, defense, and rebounding.
Miller should be able to score, which is exactly what Kn needs with both Barkley and Shard disappointing so far. With good size and SG eligibility, he looks like the type of prospect who can turn things around for the Bullets. Him and Shittu look like a great young inside/outside combo.
MikeIt's gotta be Jamal Crawford, everyone is really high on him but I feel he won't live up to his PG expectations and end up as SG so I had to pass on him. I think Fizer could be a steal, looks like he's gonna be really solid and also Mateen Cleaves. We're lacking of PG's on the league and he slides till 18 makes it really worth the pick.
3. Taking into account where they were picked, which lottery selection was the worst value? Any other major reaches?
FasonI honestly don't see any picks in the lotto that were terrible values. My first thought to seeing Courtney Alexander go 1.1 was
but his grades and writeup are much better than expected. For the purpose of answering the question, I'll say Quentin Richardson because those grades are pretty underwhelming and Marcus Fizer/Chris Mihm were still available. But I could easily be completely wrong, I vaguely remember Druce having Richardson at one point in 4.0 and believe he was on one Druce's championship winning teams. Majic I thought the Livio pick was interesting, but Mike had back to back picks and given his age this will be a big Boom or Bust guy. Stash him for a year or two and hope he gets a dream Teen TC. The only other one was the pick of Mason at 3. This mostly stems from the fact I liked Miles and Miller a bit more than him. The profile makes it seem like he will struggle on defense a bit. Really that was the only one I personally disagreed with.
DelapThe first overall pick was atrocious. Eric really missed on that one (word doc it, friend.) I'm incredibly ambivalent about Desmond Mason, as I'm sure all IRL GMs were during his early years in the league. He's just a guy, ya know? Quentin Richardson was another reach that I would've avoided. Gotta trade back, if possible, at that spot and take a swing at a player like Eddie House, who offers all the upside (and downside) of Q-Dog and was available 15 picks later... at least make a few bucks off the deal.
JHBI really hate Courtney Alexander at 1 overall. May never be much of a scorer, low rebounding grade may indicate very low strength. Not the kind of PG I would want to have at #1 with the expectation that player will be a star.
Eric 1.07 Livio Jean-Charles woof. LE WOOF EH DOTTE COMME, HON HON HON. C Outside bad jump shot profile (TWICE) is a death sentence. unrefined and high jumping is always a red flag, you gotta hope B+ Inside has enough room for inside to make that work, he'll need about 100. there's nothing from his grades/profile i'm confident will be a strength for him except quickness, which is not that useful especially for a big and which undermines my confidence in his rebounding grade, and i wasn't that confident to start with.
and he was one of two bigs taken at the same time by Mike!
and he passed up clearly superior options both times!
woooooooooof
1.04 Darius Miles was also really bad. bad handling high jumping profile, C outside grade with no mention of jump shot, not SG eligible. C rebounding with bad rebounding profile is also a red flag but as an SF with A potential he should grow into at least an okay one. i'm not saying he'll be a bad player, at least he'll block for you, i'm saying taking him when Mike Miller was still on the board was a huge reach.
1.11 Quentin Richardson i also didn't like. B- outside and strong three shot could mean 80 three 40 jumper. good luck with that. C inside, C- handling, C defense, and C rebounding are ALL areas of concern - each one could be fine or a disaster, four turns of russian roulette ain't great odds. less of a reach simply because so few guys were left though.
TimPigI thought Quentin Richardson was a reach at 1.11 with Fizer, Hart, and Mihm still on the board, but I see how Q-Rich’s potential might be enticing to Taco. With two lottery picks, the Warriors snagged two guys in Miles and Richardson who both look like boom or bust prospects. Richardson’s strength was his 3-point shot, and his outside is only a B-, so his jumper could be pretty average. He doesn’t appear to have strengths anywhere else.
Kenyon Martin also worries me at 1.8. The IRL 1.1 pick had a decent career, but his write-up reminds me of another Austin Wiley or Udoka Azubuike. He’s got an awful jumper, so his free throw shooting will be bad and it looks like all of his upgrades may need to go into that. I’m guessing he’ll have high strength, which means he’ll be shooting a lot of FTs (I think). Also, one of his strengths is that he’s a “vocal leader”, which isn’t even a thing in the software.
MikeHard to tell when you have so much uncertainty with this class, I'd say Quentin Richardson but just cause he had less press around the league. Also, I wouldn't call them reaches but the first couple of picks were worth taking the risks Demarr, Desmond and such but good for me cause I got Kenyon.
4. If you had selections 1-5, who would you have picked at each spot with a quick sentence about why?
Fason1. DerMarr Johnson - I really liked his combo of scoring grades and size. He was also on Jay Bilas' length list for bleals.
2. Courtney Alexander - Eric may have gotten this one right, his scoring grades are good and he can play PG right away.
3. Mike Miller - He has the grades and write up to become a good scorer and surprisingly decent on defense.
4. Desmond Mason - Well rounded grades and good write up, should be good as long as the inside grades isn't mostly jumping.
5. Hedo Turkoglu - Very good starting scoring grades and I like the B- rebounding grade.
Majic1) Courtney Alexander - that profile sounds very appealing, and its such an important position
2) DerMarr Johson - really liked the profile write up on him. close between him and Alexander for 1.1
3) Mike Miller - close with Miles, but Miller seems like he is NBA ready. lowest floor, know what you are getting
4) Darius Miles - good starting grades and young. Going to need some points into him, but think he could be good
5) Stromile Swift - after the top 4 it seems to drop off a bit, and as I have stated, Swift presents alot of positives.
Delap1. The Spurs desperately need a steady hand and/or a HUGE swing at a star. That leaves you with two real options: Mike Miller (the steady hand) or DerMarr Johnson (the swing at a star.) My sim philosophy has always been about upside... so I would've gone with DerMarr Johnson.
2. With Johnson off the board the Heat can easily just pick Mike Miller and get him on the MegaBus from Gainesville to Miami for the low cost of like $13. He slides right into that lineup to provide a 2nd scoring punch with Zion.
3. Playing against the odds of Halpert leaving, the Bulls need to pick a scoring wing to either replace him or be a jack-of-all-trades backup off the bench. Darius Miles is the pick here.
4. With Miles off the board, the Warriors can move to the next scoring wing on their board or their top big in the draft, as both are major needs in Oakland. I think you have to make the call to Hedo Turkoglu here, as the best big in the class, who could ultimately swing to SF if necessary based on future moves.
5. Rashard Lewis should be the SF of the future, so drafting a PG or big is the right move at this spot, sorry Desmond. You either go with upside (Jean-Charles) or established production (K-Mart). I would go with Livio Jean-Charles to match the age of my future core (Lewis, Shittu) and hope that those 3 form the front-court of the future in the Chocolate City.
JHB1. Darius Miles. I'll take the elite B+ inside grade and a 19 year old with A potential (speculating that Druce will hold close to true on potential) and hope that I can turn him into an elite scoring wing. This is a real boom or bust pick but the upside is a bit too tantalizing to pass.
2. Desmond Mason. More than anything, I look to find scoring wings when I have high draft picks. That's mainly because grades are worthless as indicators of what a big will be able to do until you can see their shot-blocking and traditionally, elite point guards have been able to be moved for much less than wings in the trade market. B C+ is a strong set of starting grades for Desmond Mason as far as scoring goes, and the combination of his 'other' grades indicates he shouldn't have any real holes in his game. I would say he's likely one of the more safe picks in the lottery.
3. Mike Miller. Still hunting for a scoring wing and I like the size and scoring grades plus A potential.
4. Jason Hart. As stated above, I think his game doesn't have any obvious holes outside of defense (and we don't currently have a league full of super defenders at PG, so NBD IMHO) and has the potential to become a star.
5. DeeAndre Hulett. He's extremely unique for a TMBSL prospect and the actual Hulett IRL was a shooting guard. Usually that means it's a commish pet cat (see: Godbolt, Champ) and they turn out pretty well.
HM: Jamal Crawford, Etan Thomas, DerMarr Johnson, Courtney Alexander
Eric1. Courtney Alexander. i picked him and i stick with it. C+ B- with "pure scorer finish at the rim" profile is by far the best scoring write up for a PG with plus defense, and unlike a lot of recent combo guards he starts with A- handling so is a lock to stay PG eligible.
2. DerMarr Johnson. easy #2 with B- B and glowing scoring + blocks profile. slight concern with C- handling and no handling profile, bigger concern with C rebounding and negative rebounding profile, but appears to be SG eligible so should be fine.
3. Mike Miller. B- B- and another glowing scoring + defense profile. only thing keeping him under dermarr is the turnover red flag.
4. Desmond Mason. C+ outside isn't ideal but has jump shot profile. "athleticism and no strength" profiles are always dicey but with B inside should still have plenty of inside. slight concern with C- handling and no handling profile.
5. DeeAndre Hulett for reasons stated above.
TimPig1.1 - DerMarr Johnson. Alexander wasn’t a bad pick by any means, but I’m thinking the thought process going into this pick was that he’d be a point guard with size who can score and defend. But the depleted Spurs have pretty much only one decent player on their roster in Jason Williams, who is a point guard. I think a player like Johnson would’ve given them two solid outside prospects to work with. The scoring grades are pretty great to start and his write-up indicates a volume scorer.
1.2 - Courtney Alexander. Yawn has Zion and Benji to build around, so adding a point guard like Alexander would’ve been huge. Stockton doesn’t look like he’ll ever be worth a damn with his awful shooting percentages.
1.3 - Desmond Mason. Everything about Mason looks good except for his strength. His write-up indicates a solid player who can score from everywhere, defend well (tied with Dan Langhi for the best defense grade in the draft), and grab some boards. The Bulls are at risk of losing Halpert this offseason, so Mason gives them a potential long-term replacement. If Halpert does come back, Mason should be a good backup at the 3 and 4. Mike Miller was the other option here, but I think he has more question marks than Mason (strength, rebounding, turnovers).
1.4 - Mike Miller. Taco went with Darius Miles here, who looks like a boom or bust prospect. For a team like the Warriors, who are trying to find anyone to build around, I’d be worried about a prospect with a very low floor. Miller, at the very least, should be a good scorer. If I’m the Warriors, I’m trying to grab any one of Johnson, Mason, or Miller if they’re available at 1.4.
1.5 - Jamal Crawford. Kn scored here by grabbing Miller, but in this draft re-do Miller is off the board at 1.4, so I have the Bullets snagging Crawford, who looks like he’ll be a good scorer. The C inside grade is scary and could have a really ugly impact on his volume, but the Bullets are in dire need of a guard who can score. Even if Crawford doesn’t get to PG eligibility, the Bullets would’ve been fine playing him at SG.
Mike1-Jamal Crawford, league lacks PG's, he's been praised as possibly the best out there he either gets real or holds a good market value for some time.
2-Darius Miles, I can see him being the best scorer out there but for personal reasons. Always got good out of nowhere in my past experiences lol
3-Hedo the Turk, another high praised around like if they felt he will become a force. Good trade value too if you feel he won't live up to expectations..
4-Livio Jean Charles, his name sounds good, added at last to boost the class. I'd take the risk with him any day, remember I'm hoping to find hiding gems in this class.
5- Here gets messy, after these names I'm not interested in anything else so this could go to any of these Mike Miller, Kenyon Martin, Fizer or Desmond. They're all equally shit to me tho.
5. Grade Fecta’s Lotto Grades and provide some reasoning for your grade.
FasonCourtney Alexander - B - I can't really disagree with the B+ he gave or anything he said.
DerMarr Johnson - C - The B grade he gave isn't that bad, but the write up is not kind enough to the player many felt should have gone 1.1.
Desmond Mason - D - The C+ grade and write up seemed bitter and bias, I've already said why I like Mason.
Darius Miles - B - B+ for the pick may be a little too high but I don't disagree with what he said, Miles was by far the biggest boom or bust player in this class.
Mike Miller - A - He got this one right with the A grade and write up.
Hedu Turkoglu - C - B was not a high enough grade for this pick.
Livio Jean Charles - B - B- was a fair grade and so is the B I'm giving Fecta.
Kenyon Martin - A - The A- grade he gave Mike was spot on.
Stromile Swift - D - B- is way too low of a grade for Swift at 1.9, he could be the best big in the class.
Jamal Crawford - D - B- is way too low of a grade for Crawford at 1.10, he could be the best PG in the class.
Quentin Richardson - B+ - Only reason I'm not giving Fecta's D grade and slamming of this pick an A is because of what I said earlier about Druce's possible fondness of Richardson.
DeeAndre Hulett - B - Fair grade of B and write up.
Jason Hart - B - I don't disagree with his B grade or write up.
Marcus Fizer - C- - How do you talk about Marcus Fizer multiple times throughout the article then only give an A- for getting him at 1.14?
Chris Mihm - B- - Kind words for Mihm but the grade of B+ was too low.
MajicB
Great effort and a really well thought out article. I think he was a bit too kind in giving out the grades, but as I mentioned above, there really didnt seem to be alot of craziness with the draft. Everything sort of played out pretty cut and dry so its hard to make that exciting. Add in this is a pretty "meh" class and its not the most exciting thing to write about.
DelapOverall I think his grades were sorta OK. Big discrepancies on my end are at picks 1, 7, 8, and 14. I don't like K-Mart or Fizer as sim-players, so I don't really see the high grades panning out for them. I really agree with his Richardson and Mason feelings... both are just so meh. I think the rest are mostly fair. Drastically underselling Jamal Crawford at 10 though. That's a money beet.
JHBF. Fecta has shown he can't put together his own winning 5.0 team in a soft conference so obviously his opinions are inherently flawed.
EricOverall C+.
I like the effort but I felt like a lot of it was just restating the profiles without trying to translate them from profile speak into what it means on the court, especially with regard to grades. Example, he gives Jason Hart 'decent grade set' even though he's strong in threes and has C+ Outside, which is a chernobyl red flag for me. I also would like a little more formatting, throw in a pic or something.
TimPigD. The inconsistency in grading when you look at his mock vs. his lotto grades is appalling. Some examples:
- Courtney Alexander went 1.15 in his mock and wasn’t even deserving of actual commentary. He gave this pick at 1.1 a B+.
- DerMarr Johnson wasn’t a lottery pick in his mock and then went 1.2. He gave this pick a B.
- Desmond Mason wasn’t a lottery pick in his mock and then went 1.3. He gave this grade a C+, so at least he was semi-consistent for the first time, but the reasons he gave for wanting Miller above Mason were faulty at best.
- Livio-Jean Charles wasn’t a lotto pick in his mock draft and went 1.7. He gave this pick a B.
- He had Marcus Fizer at 1.2 and Kenyon Martin at 1.4 in his mock. Fizer actually went 1.14 and Martin went 1.8. There was a 12-pick difference for Fizer and a 4-pick difference for Martin. Both picks were given an A- grade.
MikeWell I'll give him a B+ cause his lotto mock was fucking horrible guessing, he improved format and everything.
10. Los Angeles Lakers. Jamal Crawford. Fecta's grade: B-
That one sucked too, JC at 10 in this class is great, dunno what you gotta do to get A+ then.
