Post by skrouse on Nov 19, 2020 3:19:22 GMT
Rookie FA
1. With two Rookie FA periods now in the books (mostly), what is your overall feeling towards Rookie FA as a draft format in simulation basketball? Mostly Dislike, Somewhat Dislike, Somewhat like or Mostly like? Why?
troybarnes: I have been pleasantly surprised, honestly, so I guess mostly like. It streamlines things a bit without having a draft thread you have to follow for days and it seems like you can be competitive in the rookie market just using MLE and LLE. I don't think it's perfect (need more tradeable assets and tweaks to sim economy, as previously discussed), but I like it more than I expected to.
jhb: I mostly like the actual rookie FA and the way that it's changed free agency. I think having rookies involved gives a much more diverse group of free agents and makes building through FA more about savviness than it was luck before where everyone bet on the same 3 max players, the same 20 or so MLE players, etc and it was just a luck of the draw type situation. My only gripe with it moving forward is there needs to be something done to help facilitate trades. I'm still not sure what that is.
Killiam Bing: Somewhat like. It’s actually been fun doing the rookie fa stuff itself. What needs changed is the league around it. The league as structured won’t work for rookie fa because we can’t do trades.
Majic: Somewhat dislike. Overall, I don’t think its going to work with the way we currently have the system setup. The trade market is dead and even when you can sign a good rookie there does not seem to be a market for it. Also, we need to get the extension situation sorted out so that people have a better ability to keep the players they do find. This is just one of the issues that we are running into and I don’t see a situation where we sort if out before we hit the end of 5.0. There is a way to make this system functional, I just think its going to take too much time for a commish to run.
Logan: somewhat like. the process itself is fun as some largely positive aspects focusing around parity balance. i think there are as many, if not more, problems however. i one wrote an article about how to fix it but no one took it seriously. so i've done all i can do.
skrouse: Two seasons in I would have to say I somewhat like Rookie FA. It has its pros and cons. I like how it provides equal access to all players, even if it's just a shot with a max bid via RNG. I also like that no one team is guaranteed any player in any offseason. I have also enjoyed the change in strategy I've putforth in my FA bids the last two season. Having soft cap for FA Day 1 has added excitment that wasn't always there in the past. I also noticed that I had a different sentiment towards Rookie FA following year two than I did year one, which tells me that the jury is still out overall.
andrewluck: I somewhat like it. I mean the pro is obviously that everyone gets a crack at whoever they like. The market has been pretty reasonable too. However I do think it negatively effects the trade market and in a way it negatively affects the non-rookie FA market.
2. Of the two remaining Rookie FA classes, which are you looking forward to the most? Why? Are you hoping for additional Rookie FA classes before 6.0?
troybarnes: Probably next year's. I just wanna see what Morant's build is. I wouldn't mind having some additional classes to get a feel for it before 6.0
jhb: Easily the 2050 class. While 2049 is current players you've got some great names like Ceballos, Payton, Bo Kimble, Jayson Williams, Derrick Coleman, Kukoc, etc. in 2050. I would like to see some additional classes tacked onto the end to try and milk another 5-10 years out of this version of the league because I'm not quite ready to start 6.0.
Killiam Bing: I dont look at classes this far in advance. One season at a time baby. I’d be fine with additional classes but hope we can use novelty names instead of software generated ones.
Majic: 2049 Class is the most interesting to me as it has some guys in it that are up and coming IRL NBA guys. Ja Morant seems to be the biggest and most exciting name, but you also have the bubble darling in Tyler Herro. I think it should be a really fun class and hopefully sustain some excitement as we wind down.
Logan: probably 2050/1990 because i'm going to give the guys i signed this offseason a couple tcs before they get the amnesty axe
skrouse: I am digging the 2050 draft, the Glove, Magic great Dennis Scott, Kukoc, Antonio Davis and 4.0 legend (or maybe 2.0?) Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf. It makes me sad to think these guys won't have a chance to develop, especially Gary Payton. I am hoping 5.0 rolls on a little longer to allow guys like Payton a chance to grow, but I'm not sure what kind of extra classes I'd want. I think something based on IRL would be best, like a soccer class, a baseball class and a football class - something like that.
andrewluck: I would say I am most looking forward to next years class. This has nothing to do with the players, just how I think about FA. Usually I'm looking to try to build as close to a win-now team as I can every offseason... with a distant eye on the future.
3. What has been your best and worst move so far in Rookie FA? If you don't have one personally, what is the best or worst you've seen?
troybarnes: Best move for me so far was getting Toney on an MLE on day 4. His scout looks really good, pretty excited to see what he looks like in PS. But I feel like I won't really know what my worst move has been for a few seasons. I don't really hate any of the moves I've made currently.
jhb: I don't think I've made a bad move yet but I've been playing in the exception market so far. I'm a big fan of Saddiq Bey at this point, I think he's a stud.
Killiam Bing: I haven’t made any hard moves in rookie FA. I got precious last year on a MLE and he ended up being interesting but not worth keeping around. Not making a move this year is my move; 0 rookies on my roster.
Majic: Best move was signing Onyeka and then choosing to upgrade him. I really like how he performed in his rookie year and he was easily one of the best rookies in the draft. Just need his defense to develop a bit more and he could be a young stud. Can’t say I have a move that I think was the worst. I haven’t really had cap space so maybe I could have planned to try and have more as we got into it. But as mentioned, I signed Onyeka on an LLE and he was one of the best from the class.
Logan: my best was probably kiki vandeweghe for 3/5. my worst was probably mike gminksi for 4/8.9. while gminski had a really nice build i think going for the full amount cost me andrew toney who will be the best player from this class.
skrouse: Patrick Williams looks like the best or maybe 2nd best player from the 47 class, and Killian Hayes looks like he could be in the top 5, maybe 3. Those would clearly be my 1A and 1B, Devin Vassell is clearly the worst, and I think seeing Saddiq Bey apparently blow up the way he has makes it worse, becuase I had him one slot lower on my draft board and also offered him my MLE.
andrewluck: I've signed LaMelo Ball to a 4 year deal. I feel like the jury is still out on him. I do like him as a long term project, probably overpaid by a good bit though.
4. What is your overall feeling towards scouting? Do you feel it is a necessity to be a successful GM in the Rookie FA era?
troybarnes: I like it. The cost reduction we saw introduced for full stat scouts this season was needed imo and I think it's a lot more reasonable now at 14k. I don't know if it's really a necessity to scout to win in this league, but I certainly think it helps. I personally feel much better about my upgrade point expenditures when I have a baseline to work from
jhb: I liked scouting for a draft pick when you knew which small group of players you were targeting and could have some certainty to get and it was just needing to make the right decision to maximize that opportunity. I don't see the value for me right now when I'm mostly taking longshots at rookies (in addition to some value vets) with an MLE/LLE.
Killiam Bing: Nope. I think making other people pay rookies to see who is good is the best move.
Majic: No, I think its over-priced and sort of pointless. Sure, there is some good information that you can learn from it, but with where the cost is at on them its not worth it. Spending potentially 20-30k+ to get a few scouts is a ton to spend when you only have the “chance” to sign them. Also, scouts only really give you inside information heading into their first TC. I have had more than a couple occasions that a scout looked great and then after 2-3 TCs the player didn’t show much growth, or even took a step back. With the way eric makes players the most important aspect to any growth is TC luck.
Logan: i feel like it is a necessity and people dont want to pay anything at all. i bought 8 scouts, and traded one of those for a 9th, this offseason just to see if i could sell any for what i was thinking a "reasonable" price would be at 5k. delap bought 8, troy bought a couple. at ~30% of the current price i sold about a dozen. majic was quoted as saying "i probably wouldnt pay more than 1k". its just not worth the investment. scouting everyone didnt give me any real info. i would have offered the same guys either way. it didnt help me sign anyone. i was unable to flip the info for 5k. there's just no real benefit to doing it before signing a player.
ultimately we have to scout a ton of players to make scouting worthwhile because theres so many players out there. scouting 4 players costs more than an amnesty, so why not just offer everyone and amnesty those who aren't worth it? make the system useful or get rid of it entirely.
skrouse: I believe Scouting has it's value, but has been overpriced in the past and did not provide the kind of payoff I felt it should for how costly it was. Based on the recent reduction in cost, I think I will invest a little more in that regard. I don't feel it's 100% necesary to be successful, but if you know exactly how the profiles will translate to the sim it can def. help a GM avoid pitfalls.
andrewluck: I love getting the scouts. They help guide your upgrades and show you how to maximize the build's potential. Gotta have them otherwise its a crapshoot.
5. Considering all that you may or may not have said above, what draft format are you hoping for in 6.0? And do you believe that's the best format for the long term viability of the league?
troybarnes: Depending on how the rest of this experiment goes, I wouldn't be opposed to keeping rookie FA, but I do think the wheel probably is the fairest way to dole out incoming talent. Also, a far as long term viability, the league is already kind of a lot to pick up for newcomers, so having a traditional draft instead of rookie FA would probably be an easier sell to potential GMs.
jhb: I think the best format for long-term viability is weighted lotto because it's what people who are unfamiliar with our league know and can understand and doesn't have as big a learning curve as other leagues. While some of us may hate tanking, I think less people have issues with that. I would personally want to continue to see wheel or even rookie FA if we can build out some game functionality that would help facilitate trades. I'm actually quite enjoying rookie FA now that we're not in a wheel league without future draft capital to trade.
Killiam Bing: I think as currently structured wheel or weighted lottery is the best. I would enjoy both. I also think maybe we could consider doing a “weighted” wheel. Where you’re trading the 1.1 slot in a lottery instead of 1.1 itself.
Majic: I have said this for a long time but I strongly favor weighted lotto in some form. I am more than willing to adjust the weights to each pick to appease people but want to see record play into draft spot. I have long said, tanking was not our issue in 4.0, our issue was participation, and we didn’t have the means to kick people out back then. With the structure of contraction, we are able to more closely monitor GMs and if someone is doing next to nothing, we can contract and move on. If we didn’t do weighted lotto I would prefer some form of weighted Wheel, as I proposed in shout. I still like the idea of uncertainty with picking and where a pick will fall. If all else I would pick wheel over rookie FA.
Logan: i think we should have no draft, no player aging, no new players, just a league full of hofers who never age.
but seriously we should probably go wheel. unweighted (whole league) is still my favorite concept but we saw how much people hated unweighted in the past, which i still dont understand. i think the biggest issue with it is people still had the classic weighted lotto team building approach during those times thus people would tank for years expecting a good pick when they should have been trying to build a team without relying on the draft and took whatever the draft gave them as a bonus.
but seriously we should probably go wheel. unweighted (whole league) is still my favorite concept but we saw how much people hated unweighted in the past, which i still dont understand. i think the biggest issue with it is people still had the classic weighted lotto team building approach during those times thus people would tank for years expecting a good pick when they should have been trying to build a team without relying on the draft and took whatever the draft gave them as a bonus.
skrouse: As much as I have enjoyed Rookie FA thus far, I can't get past how badly it has impacted the trade market. I think one of the things people enjoy the most in TMBSL is trading, and losing picks has made that more difficult. Not impossible, but more difficult. As for the Wheel, I have come to think it is a vastly superior system to the lottery, in any format. Our modified wheel was admitedly not perfect, but I think the pros far outweighed the cons and there were no drastic effects like we have seen with Rookie FA.
All that said - I want more GMs in the league and I think the best way to accomplish that singularly minded goal is to go weighted lotto. It's the classic, it's the software default, I think it's the most popular.
All that said - I want more GMs in the league and I think the best way to accomplish that singularly minded goal is to go weighted lotto. It's the classic, it's the software default, I think it's the most popular.
andrewluck: I am probably the only one who thinks this but whatever, I say let's just do a straight up reverse of the standings like the irl NFL(and others). I don't care about tanking. I thought it was fun to watch the secondary race.
TMBSL 5.0
1. The GM Voted awards were clearly split on last season's Rookie of the Year. Patrick Williams and Saddiq Bey each received 3 votes. Who was more deserving of the prize? Who do you feel has the brighter future?
troybarnes: Pat Williams. Good bigs just seems to be worth more than good wings in this league.
jhb: I think Patrick Williams is the clear higher ceiling player with a brighter future but I thought Bae Bey deserved the award for being a starter and bigger contributor on a better team that season.
Killiam Bing: Pwill is the guy i’d want
Majic: I am going to give the edge to Saddiq right now as I think he gives you a lot at a position you don’t see it as often. The scoring is great and the rebounding is elite for his position. Patrick Williams is great, and I would take him in a second, but it’s a lot easier to find a big that can reproduce some level of his stats than it is to find a SF that does what Saddiq can.
Logan: well i'll be honest i definitely may have voted Patrick Williams because i didn't feel like looking through stats, but i feel ok right now so i'll check it out....
after looking through some stuff, here are my rankings based solely on last season stats. i have not looked at anyone's TC
1) Onyeka Okongwu
2) Patrick Williams
3) Saddiq Bey
4) Zeke Nnaji
5) Cole Anthony (bias)
1) Onyeka Okongwu
2) Patrick Williams
3) Saddiq Bey
4) Zeke Nnaji
5) Cole Anthony (bias)
skrouse: I obviously voted homer and tossed my vote to Williams, but had he not been a Mage I would have voted for Bey. Pat missed like 30 games and I don't feel like he was a standout at the position overall. Bey on the otherhand was probably a top 8 SF last year and this coming year he may be top 5.
andrewluck: Patrick Williams. Please trade me Patrick Williams.
2. Considering the Bulls entered the playoffs with just .024 fracs this past season, what was your reaction to their title win? Mostly just RNG or did eric's fracs miss something?
troybarnes: Idk man. I had a couple of pretty good years there in 45 and 46, but I got significantly worse in 47 with the same core group and Rubio becoming an elite PG, so it doesn't really surprise me that the Bulls got on a heater and won another ship. The rng in this software is just weird.
jhb: I think the league has gotten to the point where we've got a lot of parity and it wouldn't surprise me if 5-8 different teams won a title once you get to the playoffs. While it just so happens that the Bulls, Hawks, and Globes have still won 5 of the last 7 titles, a lot more teams have been in the hunt and I think that's only a function of those three teams always being around the top whereas before they were just blowing everyone away for the previous two decades.
Killiam Bing: Eric’s fracs are way worse than they are given credit for; however i do think the bulls were unlikely champions.
Majic: RNG and they had 2 of the best wings in the league. The Bulls had a good mix and balance from the big positions and had a clear advantage with their SG-SF combination. Not surprising that they were able to make the run in the playoffs and win another title.
Logan: his offering to rnjesus was bigger than everyone else's
skrouse: I was pretty surprised to see the Bulls win the title, I thought for sure the Globes had it. Looking back now, I see the Bulls won the regular season series with Harlem 2 - 0. I also see that LBJ only played 39 games. That coupled with Bam being apparently awesome, it's less surpsing... fucking Bulls.
andrewluck: Hey man, a 2% chance is a 2% chance. Seems like the fracs got it right considering they didn't give the Bulls a 0% chance. *shrugs*
3. What are you most excited about regarding your team for the upcoming season? Do you believe a title is realistic for your squad?
troybarnes: I'm excited about the 2 rookies I got and that I was able to hold onto Rubio. I saw full scouts on both and actually offered both a rookie max on day 1, so I was really happy that I landed both despite limited cap space. As for winning it all, I've yet to win a playoff series, so I'd really just like to get that done. I think my lineup should be able to score with anybody this year, though, so I have high hopes for finally making a run
jhb: I'm most excited to see how Bae Bey continues to develop. I like the stew I've got going on the wing with the combo of Bey/Winslow/O'Bannon now and I've got most of the rest of the gang returning. I'd like to upgrade at point guard if possible but I don't really see where that's coming from at this point. I think a title is realistic but I wouldn't consider us a favorite.
Killiam Bing: Yes this is the best team i’ve had in a couple years.
Majic: I am going to be honest and say that I am not much excited about my team. My team is what it is at this point and I don’t see them making a run at a title anytime soon. Ewing and Mullin are solid if not spectacular. Booker is a great player and should put up another solid season. I am lacking in the PG position so I don’t think I will have enough to make a run. Hoping that Onyeka can show more signs of growth and maybe Frank Ntilikina breaks out in his 3rd year. Other than that, I am just biding my team to the end of 5.0.
Logan: i signed 20 rookies so i'm excited to see them play. yeah no, i have no title chances. its a weird team.
skrouse: I'm really excited to see how Williams and Hayes develop, I was also holding out hope for Anthony Edwards to spark a little, but he had a less than stellar TC. I don't think we're a realisitc title contender. Sure we could get lucky with crazy post season run, but I think this team needs a few more pieces to truly contend.
andrewluck: I wanted to build a team that is a little bit better on the defensive end. I think George Karl is a sleeper. I think we have at least a 2% chance to bring a ship back to Phoenix.
4. If we took the current set of players in the league today to start 6.0, who should be the 1.1 and why? Who would be the other 4 in your top 5?
troybarnes: That's a tough one. I think KAT probably is the best in the game right now, but I don't know who else I would put in that conversation. If the question is if I could take any 5 current players I wanted to start 6.0: Rubio, Doug Collins ( 
), Saddiq Bey, KG, and KAT
), Saddiq Bey, KG, and KATjhb: Karl-Anthony Towns. I know KG gets better win shares and I've always voted for him for MVP but I'm biased and the improvements in rebounding and defense are worth the difference in turnovers and since the scoring is a push, he would be my #1 easily.
Killiam Bing:
KAT Obviously Best
KG 2nd best
Karl Malone 3rd best
James Harden
Swen Nater
KG 2nd best
Karl Malone 3rd best
James Harden
Swen Nater
Majic: A lot of names to consider and I am probably going to miss some obvious choices, but there are a lot of guys to pick from. KG, Malone, KAT, Hezonja, Harden, Tatum, Collins and Wilkes, just to name a few. I would probably lean to taking Wilkes for a number of reasons. His scoring is elite and has great rebounding numbers, also plays strong defense and is still young. He plays a position of importance and can have some flexibility on where you play him. I would rather focus on a big after the first round since those can be easier to find.
Logan: kat is probably the safest top tier player to pick and i'd be shocked if it was anyone else.
skrouse: This is a lot harder than I expected it to be. There really are options all over and a case could be made for probably more than 5 guys. KG and KAT are both great but 9 and 7 years of experience respectively means they're headed toward the back 9 very soon. James Harden is just entering his prime, probably the best young wing in the league. Ricky Rubio looks like the most promising PG, and then Bam clearly just made a case for himself with that Rookie title and playoff MVP. Not to mention guys like Malone and Nater. This is really tough but I think I would go with Harden at the 1.1, just knowing how thin the wing position can be in TMBLS. 2-5 would be Rubio, Nater, Malone, Hezonja.
andrewluck: Rubio. I like him alot and I'd love a star PG. Give me KG, Swen, Jayson Tatum, and KAT in my top 5... probably.
5. What are you most looking forward to in 6.0?
troybarnes: Creation draft. Never done one before and it sounds interesting.
jhb: Hopefully a full league and the return of some familiar faces that will make the top more competitive.
Killiam Bing: A new persona
Majic: restart of the league and hopefully some changes in player builds. I think eric has done a lot of great things for 5.0 and we really found a structure that was able to bring stability. Overall, I think things got a bit stale towards the end and I would like to see some player builds that differ in each class.
Logan: CREATION DRAFT. also, everything. new players. maybe new gms. new/old systems. new board. maybe some people change teams. and of course, last but not least, the creation draft. oh wait, i already said that.
skrouse: Building a brand new team from scratch is always fun, I'm also really excited to see how the league goes with eric as commish from square one. But I'm mostly hoping we can get a few more GMs in the league and keep them, along with all of our current crew. I think more GMs means more activity top to bottom, from articles to the trade market. But if not, I'll still enjoy starting anew, creation drafts are always fun.
andrewluck: Winning a championship. It'll happen sooner or later. Sweet, sweet victory.
